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Thread: So how long will the greatness last?

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    Senior Member predatorkj's Avatar
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    So how long will the greatness last?

    I have only been doing autographs since Jan. of 2008. But in that short span I have gotten quite a bit of autos. Some of great players and some of just average pro athletes. My thing is...if they play professional Basketball, Football, or Baseball...I want their auto. What I have seen over the last 2+ years has started to change though. Its never been all that easy. Its has but it hasn't. You have to out a lot of work into it. Be in the right place at the right time. Know what to get signed and where to get it signed and what to have it signed with. You start becoming an expert on pens and the surface of different materials. And you start getting pickier.

    But I think the worst thing is...the autograph events or even the availability to get autographs is starting to get harder. Its never been easy because I mainly do stuff at the stadiums(barely started doing stuff at hotels but I will only wait outside by the bus and if they sign great...if not...I don't hold it against them) and also I go to all the free events at Academy and Sports Authority as well as other local places. But athletes seem to be getting pickier and I know with the astros...have developed sort of a pretty bad attitude about signing. Its not that they won't sign. Its that they feel like everything will end up for sale.

    I have also seen the lines for different events get longer and longer and start earlier and earlier. I have seen people get bolder and bolder too. I won't name names but at a signing last year...there is a guy who is a part of a company here in Houston that was at a free signing. We all know the routine. One per person. Yet he actually gets something signed, turns around to his buddy like he is giving him something(his buddy is a few people back) and then he promptly swings back around with another photo and cuts the next person in line off and gets the guy to sign it as well. And both of them were sold online. I have seen people cut in line. I have seen people come super early and if they hand out tickets(like they are starting to do at Academy for big name players) to keep people from having to stand in line, then they get a ticket and turn right back around and hop in the back of the line, change a shirt or hat and get another. They repeat this process several times. I have seen way worse but that is really not the point.

    My point is...collecting autographs has been going on for a long time by many people. But to me, its sort of like that movie "The Beach" with Dicaprio. Its sort of like a paradise. A piece of pie. Yet the pie is only so big. And if too many people try to get some of this paradise, some of this pie, then pretty soon everyone's share is so small that its been ruined. Or things change so drastically that the good thing comes to an end. The other day when I found out how they would be doing the Texans training camp auto session...it got me to thinking if in time, it will become really sparse for autographs. Will the events go away? The free auto sessions at local stores or at other places? The willingness to sign at a stadium or a hotel?

    Everywhere I go the event promoters as well as the athletes are *****ing about people selling stuff on ebay. I know that the woman running the events at Verizon for the Texans players that come and do the radio show/auto session freaked out quite a bit last year asking people where they got items and what they were doing with them. Coaching the player not to sign this or that. She even went buck wild at the N.D Kalu signing. Nobody was there save maybe five people and she freaked out when somebody tried to get two different photos signed. Its N.D. freaking Kalu. Seriously? Even the star players around here don't fetch much for an IP auto with zero reputable authentication. And people like Berkman think everything is for sale simply because you are an adult. Well no shat sherlock! My mommy wouldn't drive me all over the universe when I was 12. Sorry I had to catch some of you guys now that I am older, have a job, make money, and have a vehicle. Yet because I am an adult and ask you to sign a nice full size bat or MLB baseball...I guess that makes me an instant dealer. Hey Berkman...have you checked ebay lately. Andre Johnson? Mario Williams? Have you guys checked what your stuff sells for?

    I just feel like with all the stuff going on, all the changes in policies, all the fear of dealers...this stuff won't last for too much longer. Or maybe it will but they will make it even harder to obtain. Hell...most of, if not every, event is during hours a normal person is either in school or at work. They limit you to the number of items you can get. They pick at you about what you do bring. They question you. I remember a few of the events where you actually had to sign a waiver form that you wouldn't sell the items.

    Just curious as to what others have to say about this.
    Collecting Jeff Bagwell all day every day!
    Current Jeff Bagwell count: 4,637 different cards!
    Also collecting Jerry Stackhouse! 751 different cards!
    Also collecting Jack Lambert and football players from all Texas colleges!

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    Senior Member TBTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    This autograph buisness has only boomed within the last 15-20 years, it is quickly growing. More and more kids are in it, and people are becoming more greedy. My great-great aunt's son (I believe it's her son) is an autograph dealer that sets up with many big namers and does private signings. He also sets up at Twins Fest and hits the free prospect line... that pissed me off... those lines are corroded with that **** and are so long... than collectors like me miss the guys they want


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    Senior Member 17ROCKIES12's Avatar
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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    Nice read. In my opinion it isn't getting bad quickly. It is definitely getting harder and more expensive, but isn't bad yet. I just see it getting to the point where fewer sign IP, fewer sign TTM, and a lot of players only sign 1 TTM or sign their own pic/card (like Musial or Granderson).

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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    Quote Originally Posted by TBTwinsFan
    This autograph buisness has only boomed within the last 15-20 years, it is quickly growing. More and more kids are in it, and people are becoming more greedy. My great-great aunt's son (I believe it's her son) is an autograph dealer that sets up with many big namers and does private signings. He also sets up at Twins Fest and hits the free prospect line... that pissed me off... those lines are corroded with that shat and are so long... than collectors like me miss the guys they want

    Eh...I have seen so many dealers going to the free signings that it doesn't even bug me any more. You get used to it. My thing, as I have always said , is that there is no way in hell they are making real profit off of their efforts unless they find the biggest dumbass in three counties to pay big bucks. And there are people out there like that. Hey...Field of Dreams in the Galleria is still open. That should tell you all you need to know about the richy rich types with no common sense. But to sit in line for 6-8 hours(which is the average for a good player if you want a garanteed auto) and then add your gas and wear and tear on vehicle(as these things are so spread out its not even funny) plus the cost of whatever item you got signed(obviously...if its a good player worth premium money...you're not going there with an index card) and you have put a lot of time and money into it.

    Say you spend 8 hours a day in line and sell the item for $60. Okay...say the event was 20 miles from your house one way(which is more than routine for me). You just spent $20 on a mini helmet to get signed. Now obviously it has to be decent player for a $60 signed mini helmet unauthenticated but say you do. Okay...at current gas prices you have $5 into gas at the very least...maybe $7.50. Plus $20 in the helmet. Plus you are 40 miles closer to the next oil change. All of a sudden you have spent the better part of a normal day at a signing, spent almost $30 up front, plus whatever fees you may incur on ebay or whatever. Lets just call it $30 though total. That means you landed $30 profit. But what about your time? 8 hours and you made $30. That's less than $4 an hour. Most people like to make more than $30 a day. Some people cheat the system and somehow land two. But a lot of times...they bring someone with them to ensure the other auto gets done. I have done this as well but never to sell. Only to get a team and individual item done. But that other person is still there having to wait in line. Time is money.

    What gets my goat is when said dealers try to act like they are the most innocent guys in the world. Like they actually wouldn't harm a hair on your head. They'd screw you sideways if they had the chance and could make a buck doing so.
    Collecting Jeff Bagwell all day every day!
    Current Jeff Bagwell count: 4,637 different cards!
    Also collecting Jerry Stackhouse! 751 different cards!
    Also collecting Jack Lambert and football players from all Texas colleges!

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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    Quote Originally Posted by 17ROCKIES12
    Nice read. In my opinion it isn't getting bad quickly. It is definitely getting harder and more expensive, but isn't bad yet. I just see it getting to the point where fewer sign IP, fewer sign TTM, and a lot of players only sign 1 TTM or sign their own pic/card (like Musial or Granderson).

    Yeah but it has changed a lot. Especially from what it used to be supposedly. I have guys telling me how easy it used to be. They say its gotten ridiculous now. Plus I see a new face every time I go and then continue to see them. Luckily having to wait in line or missing work or school throws most people off. I have been blessed enough to have a very flexible schedule. I can only imagine what it would be like if these events were more available, time frame wise, to normal people.
    Collecting Jeff Bagwell all day every day!
    Current Jeff Bagwell count: 4,637 different cards!
    Also collecting Jerry Stackhouse! 751 different cards!
    Also collecting Jack Lambert and football players from all Texas colleges!

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    Senior Member TBTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    I will admit, dealers are scummy. I have taken people along with me to have things signed... we were at a game once and Paul Molitor was doing a free signing, I had my dad have something signed too (he isn't a collector). I do this at TwinsFest all the time. I will NEVER sell an IP auto, and have only traded one once.

    Personally though, I see a difference in dealers. Guys that show up at events and ruin it for others versus guys that hold private signings for their store are different. Some NFL teams are only allowing autographs for kids up to age 15. I don't think kids are any better than adults. I learned early on that I better save what I get, and it has helped. My parents in no way are autograph collectors... my mom owns like 5 autographs and my dad doesn't have one. After I got my first two, they put them WAY up high so they wouldn't be messed with. That taught me to hold on to what I got and take care of it.


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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    heres my rules for my ip/ttm, i never sell trade or move my ttm/ip autos, unless i am giveing it away to another collector, or it is part of a 50/50 type thing.

    "I don't lose sleep at night because my salary is X amount of dollars when I think it should be Y amount of dollars.
    I lose sleep at night because I've been in the league five years and we still haven't won a championship.
    I wake up in the middle night frustrated because we lost out in the first round and
    I want to see our players hoist the Stanley Cup.
    That's why I lose sleep. I don't worry about 13 months from now not having a paycheck."
    - Brooks Laich, on entering the final year of his current contract

    Liberen A Wilson!!

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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    Well like I said...I used to be totally against the dealers. Especially dealers getting them for free and turning them around. After a while...I just realized that they aren't making all this money that everyone thinks they are. And I think what my real beef is is with the people hosting the events. And the athletes. They are so preoccupied with something they can't stop. And its not even as lucrative as they act like it is. Trust me...when you are freaking out because you think people are selling all their IP N.D. Kalu autos on ebay...you are getting a wee bit carried away. So when they change their already lopsided policies to make it even harder for the fans who actually go through hell as it is to get autos of their favorite players, it makes it easy to step back and see where this thing is headed. At least to me.

    In fact I wouldn't doubt it all if it got to the point where they altogether stopped doing the free events. I have seen some places have an athlete there who is merely there to promote a product(i.e. the Clyde Drexler fiasco...for which it will be forever known) and they really didn't expect people to try to get an autograph.

    I don't know. Maybe I am just getting burned out. I guess to a degree that is why I cherish all of my autos. Some really are easy to get. But some had to be fought tooth and nail for. Some took extremely hardcore luck. And some were just hell to get. And I enjoy them all and I can tell a story about each one. But it can take a lot out of you. And it can eat money up like nobodies business.
    Collecting Jeff Bagwell all day every day!
    Current Jeff Bagwell count: 4,637 different cards!
    Also collecting Jerry Stackhouse! 751 different cards!
    Also collecting Jack Lambert and football players from all Texas colleges!

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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    Honestly, it is the proliferation of the internet that has put a damper on autograph collecting. I've been collecting for the past 20 years or so and I was one of the first to get in on the internet back when it was NEWSGROUPS. That's right newsgroups, no WWW. There was a newsgroup called alt.collecting.autographs where people would post their success, addresses, etc. ONE PLACE. Now we have entire message boards (signingshotline, sportsgraphing, sportscollectors.net) that are strictly devoted to EVERY MOVE EVERY ATHLETE MAKES.

    There is really no surprise anymore with TTM because everyone's "stats" are posted online, and people know who signs and how long they take. For many of the collectors who have OCD (they will not admit it), they just write to players who are reliable signers just to get a signature back. Often these are the old-timers that are getting flooded and you see them recently charge or stop signing after being reliable signers for years. I read websites where people send to player 2,3,4 times in one year.

    Think about how many posts are of people asking, does "so and so" sign because people (mostly kids) are worried that their request will not come back. Part of what makes TTM interesting is knowing your stuff may not come back.

    Alot of the collecting industry is fueled by people with OCD. The autographs fall right into this. The waiting for the mail, chasing every player, going to every event, etc.

    For in-person, it just becomes a competition of how many autographs you can get. There are some collectors (again OCD) who are fixated on getting the MOST autographs that day. You will see people even write (I'm focused on quantity over quality) and get 50 bowman prospect cards signed at once by a AA player.

    Throughout the 90's, when I went to free signings there was never a problem. Sometimes they would restrict it to one autograph if the lines were long, and maybe no inscriptions (remember inscriptions weren't really popular until recently). They almost never complained about you getting your own item signed. Now it's almost the opposite. At a lot of these free signings they will NOT let you get your own item signed, which I think is nonsense. I understand the athlete is there to promote the company. If that is the case, then give the person who came one of those photos / coasters, etc. unsigned even if they get their own item signed.

    You look in the newspaper and every book signing, department store appearance has the disclaimer (no outside memorabilia will be signed). I feel that if you purchase whatever they're hawking that you should be able to get at least 1 thing of your own signed in addition to the shirt / book / perfume that they're selling. If you are freeloading, then it is a different story.

    A few recently examples come to mind. I went to get Keith Hernandez at a bank signing here in Queens. Initially they were only going to have him sign the coasters the bank was giving out. Once that word got out, collectors started pleading with the management and they broke down. Otherwise, most of the line was ready to leave. I think Best Buy was doing promotions and was only allowing the player to sign the picture frame they were giving out. I mean seriously, who wants a signed PICTURE FRAME?
    Then again I went to a PC Richards promotion with John Maine where the ad said no outside items, but when I got there, nobody was there and Maine was signing whatever you wanted. I had a baseball signed. I think it depends on the athlete.

    As for selling autographs, I was against it until recently. If I am going to the park, hotel and I am there because I am trying to get one or two players autographs, I will bring what I have for the rest of the team to get signed while I am there so that I can maybe use the extra autos to pay for my ticket, gas, supplies, etc. I look at it as a service for the other collectors who want stuff signed that can't get it on their own due to where they live. There are a lot of set / player / team collectors that build their collections through the help of others who get autos IP. I'm not getting rich off of hawking the occasional $2-3 IP signed card, but like I said, it might pay for my gas that day or my time spent at the park.

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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    Quote Originally Posted by metrotheme
    Honestly, it is the proliferation of the internet that has put a damper on autograph collecting. I've been collecting for the past 20 years or so and I was one of the first to get in on the internet back when it was NEWSGROUPS. That's right newsgroups, no WWW. There was a newsgroup called alt.collecting.autographs where people would post their success, addresses, etc. ONE PLACE. Now we have entire message boards (signingshotline, sportsgraphing, sportscollectors.net) that are strictly devoted to EVERY MOVE EVERY ATHLETE MAKES.

    There is really no surprise anymore with TTM because everyone's "stats" are posted online, and people know who signs and how long they take. For many of the collectors who have OCD (they will not admit it), they just write to players who are reliable signers just to get a signature back. Often these are the old-timers that are getting flooded and you see them recently charge or stop signing after being reliable signers for years. I read websites where people send to player 2,3,4 times in one year.

    Think about how many posts are of people asking, does "so and so" sign because people (mostly kids) are worried that their request will not come back. Part of what makes TTM interesting is knowing your stuff may not come back.

    Alot of the collecting industry is fueled by people with OCD. The autographs fall right into this. The waiting for the mail, chasing every player, going to every event, etc.

    For in-person, it just becomes a competition of how many autographs you can get. There are some collectors (again OCD) who are fixated on getting the MOST autographs that day. You will see people even write (I'm focused on quantity over quality) and get 50 bowman prospect cards signed at once by a AA player.

    Throughout the 90's, when I went to free signings there was never a problem. Sometimes they would restrict it to one autograph if the lines were long, and maybe no inscriptions (remember inscriptions weren't really popular until recently). They almost never complained about you getting your own item signed. Now it's almost the opposite. At a lot of these free signings they will NOT let you get your own item signed, which I think is nonsense. I understand the athlete is there to promote the company. If that is the case, then give the person who came one of those photos / coasters, etc. unsigned even if they get their own item signed.

    You look in the newspaper and every book signing, department store appearance has the disclaimer (no outside memorabilia will be signed). I feel that if you purchase whatever they're hawking that you should be able to get at least 1 thing of your own signed in addition to the shirt / book / perfume that they're selling. If you are freeloading, then it is a different story.

    A few recently examples come to mind. I went to get Keith Hernandez at a bank signing here in Queens. Initially they were only going to have him sign the coasters the bank was giving out. Once that word got out, collectors started pleading with the management and they broke down. Otherwise, most of the line was ready to leave. I think Best Buy was doing promotions and was only allowing the player to sign the picture frame they were giving out. I mean seriously, who wants a signed PICTURE FRAME?
    Then again I went to a PC Richards promotion with John Maine where the ad said no outside items, but when I got there, nobody was there and Maine was signing whatever you wanted. I had a baseball signed. I think it depends on the athlete.

    As for selling autographs, I was against it until recently. If I am going to the park, hotel and I am there because I am trying to get one or two players autographs, I will bring what I have for the rest of the team to get signed while I am there so that I can maybe use the extra autos to pay for my ticket, gas, supplies, etc. I look at it as a service for the other collectors who want stuff signed that can't get it on their own due to where they live. There are a lot of set / player / team collectors that build their collections through the help of others who get autos IP. I'm not getting rich off of hawking the occasional $2-3 IP signed card, but like I said, it might pay for my gas that day or my time spent at the park.
    Great post man! I think you hit it on the head with the internet factor. I know when I first started...I started with the astros caravan that was advertised in the local paper but I have noticed most of the signings I attend...are only mentioned on forums like you suggest.Soon word gets around enough and more and more people do it. I guess collecting autos has always been popular but the availability of otherwise privileged information has made it so much easier to do these days.

    I think what also kills it, and I am totally guilty of this myself, is that we as collectors do kind of tend to go overboard at points. There are players that I enjoy watching so much that I could literally never want to stop getting different things for them to sign. And then there are others where one auto is simply enough. But if I ever got a chance for Bags again...I'd have so much stuff for him to sign. Same could be said of Josh Beckett, Scott Kazmir, or Jerry Stackhouse. Even Jack Lambert. So what I tried to do was only focus on a ball for the respective sport, a rookie card, and maybe something generic to the sport(i.e. mini helmet, bat, etc.). Yet everywhere I go I see people with new pictures to get signed or new cards or some special ball(i.e. an all star ball or a HOF ball etc.). Its like if we know we can get it...the temptation is just way too strong. This crap can really be addicting. I have no problem admitting that I am OCD about stuff. But I also think the players tend to notice the same people. And they are too ignorant(read that as uninformed) of the industry and the hobby as a whole to know who is doing what with their items and the many different motivations for getting their autograph.
    Collecting Jeff Bagwell all day every day!
    Current Jeff Bagwell count: 4,637 different cards!
    Also collecting Jerry Stackhouse! 751 different cards!
    Also collecting Jack Lambert and football players from all Texas colleges!

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    Senior Member 19braves77's Avatar
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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    Sounds like you need a break from the graphing. I started in 1991 and stopped in 1997 due to college and girls. Started back in 2004 after realizing how much I missed it and how it goes hand in hand with watching baseball. I told my wife this year after the Bees season concludes and Ogden's, that I am taking a 30 day break from anything remotely involved with baseball accept for watching the playoffs. Then I am going to the Arizona Fall League for 5 days in October.

    Graphing is no different then any other hobby, "once it feels like work, its not a hobby".
    http://diamondvisits.blogspot.com/- My Minor League Stadium Visits.

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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    Quote Originally Posted by 19braves77
    Sounds like you need a break from the graphing. I started in 1991 and stopped in 1997 due to college and girls. Started back in 2004 after realizing how much I missed it and how it goes hand in hand with watching baseball. I told my wife this year after the Bees season concludes and Ogden's, that I am taking a 30 day break from anything remotely involved with baseball accept for watching the playoffs. Then I am going to the Arizona Fall League for 5 days in October.

    Graphing is no different then any other hobby, "once it feels like work, its not a hobby".

    Eh...its always felt like work to me. But its very satisfying work at times. Whenever I get a chance I like to just sit and look at my collection. It reminds you that the effort you put in makes for a very enjoyable collection.

    Which is what my post above was sort of about as well. I love getting autographs(only sports) but the event promoters and even the athletes have made it hard as hell nowdays. I'll say this much...if the Texans training camp is like this next year...I will not be in attendance. I wouldn't mind catching a practice or two but its damn sad that all of the autos I wanted had to be obtained through sheer luck and some extreme forethought rather than being allowed the opportunity. We had a long drawn out discussion with one of the people in charge up there and all of us(the people who get there mega early...no dealers but strictly fans) let them know what we thought. The funny part is that the very thing they are trying to stop is still happening. They say they want to stop people from cutting in line. Well every auto event I have been to is like that. Every one. The only way to kill that is kill the event altogether. But they said that its not fair for people to not have the chance to get there at 2 in the morning while others can and do.

    My thoughts were that all of us(everyone there at 2 or earlier) had a life. We all had families and jobs and whatnot. We simply made the effort and took the time out of our lives and sacrificed sleep to be there. Nobody is stopping anyone else from doing the same. Bring up kids. I don't care. There are people who bring their kids that early. Several of them. So tell me why a kid whose parents think its nuts to come out there so early should have a better or even the same chance of getting an auto as someone who actually went out there early?

    The UT fanfest is supposed to be the same way this year. I can tell you for sure I won't be going if its like that.
    Collecting Jeff Bagwell all day every day!
    Current Jeff Bagwell count: 4,637 different cards!
    Also collecting Jerry Stackhouse! 751 different cards!
    Also collecting Jack Lambert and football players from all Texas colleges!

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    Senior Member TBTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    I don't go to public signings... they are a waste of time. Especially since I live in rural MN and they are all in the cities and whatnot. I make the TwinsCaravan because it usually makes the place where my dad works at, so I go to that and enjoy free food and listening to the players chat as well as getting autographs. Other than that it is all game-work for my IPs... we don't see too many famous people around here (although we have a casino around here and we have the closest airport, so people like Bill Cosbey fly in when they are preforming there, if they have jets).

    I am still within the point of where I am thankful for what I get and I don't take a lot of it for granted... same with TTM. Not with Certified though... those have no sentimental value (unless they are of a special player or were pulled through some special box or something)


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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    Quote Originally Posted by TBTwinsFan
    I don't go to public signings... they are a waste of time. Especially since I live in rural MN and they are all in the cities and whatnot. I make the TwinsCaravan because it usually makes the place where my dad works at, so I go to that and enjoy free food and listening to the players chat as well as getting autographs. Other than that it is all game-work for my IPs... we don't see too many famous people around here (although we have a casino around here and we have the closest airport, so people like Bill Cosbey fly in when they are preforming there, if they have jets).

    I am still within the point of where I am thankful for what I get and I don't take a lot of it for granted... same with TTM. Not with Certified though... those have no sentimental value (unless they are of a special player or were pulled through some special box or something)

    All of my certified autos are cool to me. Its awesome to be able to pull an auto of a guy you may never have a chance to meet or might not be able to afford to obtain. And half the time the players who are big time stars aren't going to sign very well in person anyways so I'd go for the nicer autos every time.

    I guess in a way I have taken some of my IP autos for granted. But then again my take is if you are going to allow people to go to an event to get an auto, make it easy and enjoyable. Its starting to be neither. Either do it or don't do it. And lately there had been a whole lot of "appearances" where you could supposedly "meet your favorite player" but when you got up there you were told no autos. Hey...peachy king. But when you tell everyone standing there no autos and and then you turn around and allow a person or two to get them, then you are breaking your own rules and I will not listen to you when you say no. They had Berkman down at Kay Jewelers one day and they said that crap and then the very lady who did was allowing certain people to hand her items to have him sign in the back. Funny part was one particular person just happened to be a dealer and told her the two full size bats he wanted signed were for charity. She took them and promptly ignored my protest and got them signed. She did this for a few other people who just happened to be standing around. So I just got him outside on my item. Screw em.

    And Drexler being at Best Buy was horrible. Lady told us it was strictly up to him and so we waited and then she said he said nope. So we were bummed but oh well. Then he starts signing for the first few people and she starts arguing with him to stop. He even told one of the next people up it wasn't his fault he couldn't sign. It got pretty ugly at that point.

    Its this kind of crap I get tired of. But its either go through it or just don't get the auto. I could always pay at tristar but not everyone I want signs up there. Not to mention that it costs an arm and a leg to do the free IP signings what with gas and items and all. I couldn't afford it any more at tristar.
    Collecting Jeff Bagwell all day every day!
    Current Jeff Bagwell count: 4,637 different cards!
    Also collecting Jerry Stackhouse! 751 different cards!
    Also collecting Jack Lambert and football players from all Texas colleges!

  15. #15
    Senior Member 17ROCKIES12's Avatar
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    Re: So how long will the greatness last?

    predatorjk, you should write a book You could probably combine all of your posts into one.

    Also, are the Astros good signers inside of the stadium before the game?

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