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Thread: Official Error and Variation Discussion/Reference Thread

  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracecollector View Post
    I first saw this as an eBay listing. I looked at 14 copies of this card I own. Two of them had the notched line, so that's 3 examples. The notched line is actually thicker than the non-notched line. It looks like the line was corrected with the extra part of the line removed. That in my opinion would make it a variation, but not a rare one. This is card #17 Mark Grace. I have no idea if other 89 DK cards have the same variation.
    This variation has been known to me since 2005-ish. Few collectors care about them based on the multiple times I've listed Yount and others on ebay over the years.

    Usually there are three types:

    1) Askew/thicker portion of line
    2) Askew/thicker portion of line, edited (by "hand") to smooth it out but still looks jagged
    3) Straight, corrected line

    1989 Donruss has a handful of cards that were apparently edited by hand, the most well-known being the DK checklist text.
    https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ My Error & Variation blog, focusing on the little-known rarities of the junk era.

    https://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr My COMC account, focusing on oddball, variations and promos.

  2. #812
    Junior Member cardcop05's Avatar
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    Great post, it's about time there's a thread dedicated to corrected errors & variations!

    '91 UD Cecil Fielder/hockey is shown front/back, 2000 Ichiro Retro insert- not supposed to exist (Upper Deck Exclusive) only 10 of each version exists- I have one card of each version.
    Topps BB player has MIKE ALSTOTT's name on front in gold (Buccaneers star FB), the '92 Bowman double image- baseball and football with QB FB player on back shown front/back.

    2002 Topps Archive UNSIGNED Certified Autographs of stars. I pulled these from boxes & sent them to Topps for autographed versions. THEY KEPT THE ERRORS AND got a Private Investigator (supposedly) to tell me "You pulled them out of the Duryea, PA garbage. We're not sending you anything!", I've never been to Duryea. PA in my life, nor do I know anyone who has!

    The Sutter was a third card I pulled from all the boxes I bought from K-Mart (20% off sale) in Secaucus, NJ. They were 14-pack retail $34.99 boxes (12-packs w/two bonus) with one autograph in every 24-packs. I pulled these three "SCREWED UP" cards as Sutter wrote it the best on his card I pulled out of the same 6 retail box lot from K-Mart! Topps may have ripped me off, but I will always have the proof of how badly they can screw up!

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    Last edited by cardcop05; 11-29-2018 at 03:22 PM. Reason: Descriptions
    Be honest, help fix what is wrong with your world, have integrity and empathy; and you live a happy life.

  3. #813
    Senior Member gracecollector's Avatar
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    Got an image of the #2 hand edited version? Looking at the example below, those are #1 and #3, correct?



    Quote Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage View Post
    This variation has been known to me since 2005-ish. Few collectors care about them based on the multiple times I've listed Yount and others on ebay over the years.

    Usually there are three types:

    1) Askew/thicker portion of line
    2) Askew/thicker portion of line, edited (by "hand") to smooth it out but still looks jagged
    3) Straight, corrected line

    1989 Donruss has a handful of cards that were apparently edited by hand, the most well-known being the DK checklist text.
    Last edited by gracecollector; 11-29-2018 at 04:38 PM.

  4. #814
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    Very interesting stuff, especially the Archives/Fan Favorites cards.

    I've seen the 1997 Topps with gold name cards before. The strange thing is that the foil applied is from 1996 Clear Assets (a junk Classic brand), not from Topps.

    https://www.comc.com/Cards/MultiSpor...lstott/1752752
    https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ My Error & Variation blog, focusing on the little-known rarities of the junk era.

    https://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr My COMC account, focusing on oddball, variations and promos.

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracecollector View Post
    Got an image of the #2 hand edited version? Looking at the example I posted, those are #1 and #3, correct?
    That's correct!

    Here is one example of 2nd type: https://www.comc.com/Cards/Baseball/..._Yount/1942111 (in case it links to the whole page, it is the card being sold by Acadsports)
    https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ My Error & Variation blog, focusing on the little-known rarities of the junk era.

    https://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr My COMC account, focusing on oddball, variations and promos.

  6. #816
    Senior Member Therion's Avatar
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    Just looking at those backs on COMC makes me think there are more than three variations. Look at the bottom right card being sold by buymore.

  7. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therion View Post
    Just looking at those backs on COMC makes me think there are more than three variations. Look at the bottom right card being sold by buymore.
    This is true with Yount, possibly others too.

    Back during the Galarraga madness, I sold a lot that had more than 3 versions. Generally there are variances in what I define as the 2nd, or edited, type. That said, I can't confirm that all of the DKs have this issue.
    https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ My Error & Variation blog, focusing on the little-known rarities of the junk era.

    https://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr My COMC account, focusing on oddball, variations and promos.

  8. #818
    Senior Member BBCgalaxee's Avatar
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    So considering 1990 Donruss and 1991 Topps probably contain the most variations ever, do you all think they were done on purpose or not?



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Freedom Card Board mobile app

  9. #819
    Senior Member gracecollector's Avatar
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    I don't think the vast majority were done on purpose, although some were. Back then, they printed so many cards that there were multiple print runs of the series. They corrected errors when they found them in subsequent printings. Nowdays, products are usually printed in one run, not allowing corrected versions.


    Quote Originally Posted by BBCgalaxee View Post
    So considering 1990 Donruss and 1991 Topps probably contain the most variations ever, do you all think they were done on purpose or not?



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Freedom Card Board mobile app

  10. #820
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    I find these kind of variations in the 89-92 era oddly fascinating. For example 1990 Donruss. Millions of little errors and variations, that were later looked for, noticed, and changed. Problems so obscure, I might add, that it's taken decades for the rest of us to find them (!). Small differences in type face (plain, bold, semi-bold), minute changes in text spacing and alignment, freaking periods that come and go, and so on and so on.

    It's kind of like the QC was a little lacking at first, but the cards were examined by an army of paid examiners, and they found and fixed all those little problems. That's what HAD to happen. Otherwise, if the just ran the printing presses day and night with the same plates, there would still be lots of errors, but no variations.

    One in particular that I wonder about is the "INC" and "INC." variations with Donruss from this era. With this one it's not just one year, it's several years. Meaning during print runs for multiple years they omitted, then included the period (or vice versa). There is a reason for this but who the hell knows what that reason was. Lost to time I guess.



    Quote Originally Posted by gracecollector View Post
    I don't think the vast majority were done on purpose, although some were. Back then, they printed so many cards that there were multiple print runs of the series. They corrected errors when they found them in subsequent printings. Nowdays, products are usually printed in one run, not allowing corrected versions.
    Last edited by banjar; 12-02-2018 at 05:43 AM.
    Collecting Roberto Alomar. Over 4000 unique cards, but always looking for those I'm missing!

  11. #821
    Junior Member Boo Radley's Avatar
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    In regard to the INC/INC.

    If I had to guess, I would bet that Donruss outsourced printing to multiple printers for those years. Perhaps one of the printers had INC (no period) and just never changed it because no one ever noticed. So their cards got mixed in with all the others for those 3 years and now we have Period/No period INC cards. I would put the odds at near zero that it was discovered and corrected each year. Whatever it was, it was a case of one source had the error and was used for all 3 years without ever being discovered while other sources also banged out cards with the period.

    What's odd is the varying degrees of difficulty and why some portions of the set will be found with no period in a print run where the rest of the set has a period.

    The very first print runs had periods after INC on the back of the MVP cards. Then they dropped the period, then they had the period again, then they dropped it again.

    There are DKs without the period on back but they're hard to find and are in packs with DKs that have the period on them.

    It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma.

    Arthur
    I need a Donruss intervention.

  12. #822
    Member banjar's Avatar
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    That could certainly be the case. But I am of a more conspiratorial mind on this one. If it was accidental, I could see it happening for one year. One source included the period, the other didn't. But this exact same thing went on for years, even into 1992 when the design of the card backs changed entirely from the standard design of previous years. I tell you there was something going on. The files must be declassified immediately! I'm going to file a FOIA request by god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    In regard to the INC/INC.

    If I had to guess, I would bet that Donruss outsourced printing to multiple printers for those years. Perhaps one of the printers had INC (no period) and just never changed it because no one ever noticed. So their cards got mixed in with all the others for those 3 years and now we have Period/No period INC cards. I would put the odds at near zero that it was discovered and corrected each year. Whatever it was, it was a case of one source had the error and was used for all 3 years without ever being discovered while other sources also banged out cards with the period.

    What's odd is the varying degrees of difficulty and why some portions of the set will be found with no period in a print run where the rest of the set has a period.

    The very first print runs had periods after INC on the back of the MVP cards. Then they dropped the period, then they had the period again, then they dropped it again.

    There are DKs without the period on back but they're hard to find and are in packs with DKs that have the period on them.

    It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma.

    Arthur
    Collecting Roberto Alomar. Over 4000 unique cards, but always looking for those I'm missing!

  13. #823
    Junior Member Boo Radley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjar View Post
    That could certainly be the case. But I am of a more conspiratorial mind on this one. If it was accidental, I could see it happening for one year. One source included the period, the other didn't. But this exact same thing went on for years, even into 1992 when the design of the card backs changed entirely from the standard design of previous years. I tell you there was something going on. The files must be declassified immediately! I'm going to file a FOIA request by god.
    I think you're giving them WAY too much credit. For one, it's got to be the stupidest variation in all of baseball cards. Secondly, the only reason to deliberately create a variation is to cause buzz about your product -- manufactured rarity to increase demand and therefore sales. If you were going to do something like that, you wouldn't do something like remove a minute piece of punctuation on the back of the cards that 99.999% of people are never going to notice. Also, you'd make them actually rare. I don't know of any premium for either version.

    I think it's benign. With the exception of slight tonal differences, Donruss backs are pretty much unchanged from year to year in that period. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the outsourced printers or one of the in-house pieces of equipment just never got changed.

    Arthur
    I need a Donruss intervention.

  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Secondly, the only reason to deliberately create a variation is to cause buzz about your product -- manufactured rarity to increase demand and therefore sales. If you were going to do something like that, you wouldn't do something like remove a minute piece of punctuation on the back of the cards that 99.999% of people are never going to notice. Also, you'd make them actually rare. I don't know of any premium for either version.

    Arthur
    Just an aside but the Nolan Ryan King/5000Ks, Harold Baines Line and Brian Downing (and likely the Ruben Sierra DK) cards are definitely intentional variations in that set meant to capitalize on the E&V trend at the time. 1990 Score Sandberg HL, 1990 UD Ben McDonald are other examples. It is no coincidence that 1990 saw a glut of "star" and hot rookie cards affected by errors.
    https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ My Error & Variation blog, focusing on the little-known rarities of the junk era.

    https://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr My COMC account, focusing on oddball, variations and promos.

  15. #825
    Junior Member Boo Radley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage View Post
    Just an aside but the Nolan Ryan King/5000Ks, Harold Baines Line and Brian Downing (and likely the Ruben Sierra DK) cards are definitely intentional variations in that set meant to capitalize on the E&V trend at the time. 1990 Score Sandberg HL, 1990 UD Ben McDonald are other examples. It is no coincidence that 1990 saw a glut of "star" and hot rookie cards affected by errors.
    I can absolutely see that. They also became common knowledge immediately and caused great buzz for Donruss' release that year. They essentially did everything the No Period INC didn't do. The only one I'm torn on is the Baines Line Through. It wasn't a first run error, its window of release is so small compared to all the "major" errors from Donruss that year, and it's such an easy mistake to have had happen that I could see the Baines being a legitimate honest mistake. Especially considering how quickly they corrected it.

    Arthur
    I need a Donruss intervention.

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