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Thread: Official Error and Variation Discussion/Reference Thread

  1. #826
    Member banjar's Avatar
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    I think there was a reason for the period, because they did it for multiple years, even into 1992 when the format of the card back entirely changed. But I don't think it was a way to generate interest in the product. That would definitely be a stupid way to do that. My best guess is that it was an internal thing for tracking or QC purposes. Say for example they did have two different production facilities. If Donruss people open packs and find substandard cards, they know which facility the cards came from by looking for the period. Same theory could apply to the *Denotes versus *Denotes* error. This with the period could identify 4 different printing lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think you're giving them WAY too much credit. For one, it's got to be the stupidest variation in all of baseball cards. Secondly, the only reason to deliberately create a variation is to cause buzz about your product -- manufactured rarity to increase demand and therefore sales. If you were going to do something like that, you wouldn't do something like remove a minute piece of punctuation on the back of the cards that 99.999% of people are never going to notice. Also, you'd make them actually rare. I don't know of any premium for either version.

    I think it's benign. With the exception of slight tonal differences, Donruss backs are pretty much unchanged from year to year in that period. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the outsourced printers or one of the in-house pieces of equipment just never got changed.

    Arthur
    Collecting Roberto Alomar. Over 4000 unique cards, but always looking for those I'm missing!

  2. #827
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    I'm sure the companies saw all the hoopla (and extra sales) surrounding the 89 ud Murphy and several 89 Fleer errors that they figured they get in on the action.

    Topps being topps back then, they were a year too late with their error filled set.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Freedom Card Board mobile app

  3. #828
    Junior Member cardcop05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage View Post
    Very interesting stuff, especially the Archives/Fan Favorites cards.

    I've seen the 1997 Topps with gold name cards before. The strange thing is that the foil applied is from 1996 Clear Assets (a junk Classic brand), not from Topps.

    https://www.comc.com/Cards/MultiSpor...lstott/1752752
    Yep, that can happen because Great Western Inc. (the Dallas, TX company that has printed/does print) for nearly every card company had two printing rollers running at the same time when I toured the facility in 2001: one was printing Playoff, and the other was printing Topps.
    They run these ALL NIGHT LONG. When I snooped the facility at 3am, all of the employees we smoking blunts, it was like a Rolling Stones concert in the card printing area all the way in the back with a huge smoke cloud near the roof!!! So while high I guess they get "creative" and mix up cards from different companies and randomly put one CRAZY sheet into the whole product (or just one box). I've often seen boxes of post-2000 products with wrongbacks in every pack of a factory sealed box at a rate of (3) per 10-card packs???

    In the early 1990's to 1998 (approximately) there was a Northern NJ company that did all of the gold foil printing and high gloss surfacing for Topps and Classic/Score Board. So the error you mention definitely was created at that location.
    Last edited by cardcop05; 12-05-2018 at 12:52 PM.
    Be honest, help fix what is wrong with your world, have integrity and empathy; and you live a happy life.

  4. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I can absolutely see that. They also became common knowledge immediately and caused great buzz for Donruss' release that year. They essentially did everything the No Period INC didn't do. The only one I'm torn on is the Baines Line Through. It wasn't a first run error, its window of release is so small compared to all the "major" errors from Donruss that year, and it's such an easy mistake to have had happen that I could see the Baines being a legitimate honest mistake. Especially considering how quickly they corrected it.

    Arthur
    I don't have my research/notes accessible these days but I am fairly certain there was a "tell" to the Baines that gave it away. I think it was related to the seemingly separated piece of line that is printed over the star. It isn't continuous, as if it were added on purpose. But I'm not 100% sure that is what it was. Also, I do recall it being immediately known, like the Ryans, and very expensive out of the gate.

    As for printings, I have absolutely pulled the "recent major.." back with line through star error out of packs containing other first run errors. But I've also opened boxes with both INC and INC. cards, some errors, some corrections (i.e. Valdez error, Morris correction, Downing error, Baines correction, mix of Recent Major and All-Star Game, etc).
    http://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ My Error & Variation blog, focusing on the little-known rarities of the junk era.

    http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr My COMC account, focusing on oddball, variations and promos.

  5. #830
    Junior Member Boo Radley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage View Post
    I don't have my research/notes accessible these days but I am fairly certain there was a "tell" to the Baines that gave it away. I think it was related to the seemingly separated piece of line that is printed over the star. It isn't continuous, as if it were added on purpose. But I'm not 100% sure that is what it was. Also, I do recall it being immediately known, like the Ryans, and very expensive out of the gate.

    As for printings, I have absolutely pulled the "recent major.." back with line through star error out of packs containing other first run errors. But I've also opened boxes with both INC and INC. cards, some errors, some corrections (i.e. Valdez error, Morris correction, Downing error, Baines correction, mix of Recent Major and All-Star Game, etc).
    That's interesting. Now I've got to go over all my Baines cards with my loupe.

    I've been able to identify individual print runs and have created an Excel spreadsheet documenting exactly which version of which cards came in each print run. I've done this through nine 20-box wax cases and honestly too-many-for-me-to-remember rack cases. I've literally ripped cases for the print run directly before, during, and directly after the correction of the "Recent ML" / "All-Star" back variation. I can tell you with exact precision which cards got corrected first or when an error got introduced into the production line.

    When it comes to 1990 Donruss, I am "that guy" and I am not proud of it.

    Arthur
    I need a Donruss intervention.

  6. #831
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    . I can tell you with exact precision which cards got corrected first or when an error got introduced into the production line.

    When it comes to 1990 Donruss, I am "that guy" and I am not proud of it.

    Arthur


    Please do, very interested.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Freedom Card Board mobile app

  7. #832
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    Is the Baines with line the rarest variation?

    I recall selling it for like $50 back then.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Freedom Card Board mobile app

  8. #833
    Junior Member Boo Radley's Avatar
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    There are a handful of cards rarer than the Baines. The Baines isn't that tough, there are plenty on eBay right now.

    One thing that can be said about all of the '90 Donruss E&Vs is that finding them in gem mint condition is very difficult and in many cases downright impossible. To put it into context, out of all the cases I've ripped I still haven't found a PSA 10 BC-12 Smoltz. Now, I think I have one at PSA right now but I've also thought that before. The card is a pop 1 and that is earned. Anyone that's opened those early print run boxes knows how shotty the QC was. They just didn't give a F. They were banging out cases as fast as they could with no concern for quality. I have a 1,600 ct box full of All-Star cards and ten PSA 10 Recent ML Performance cards.

    The red borders show everything. The '90 puzzle piece is actually a hair smaller than previous years and the wrap is tighter than ever. It's a miracle to pull a card out of a pack that doesn't have a little white on a corner under a loupe. Once you see that tiniest of frosty tip, forget it, game over, move on to the next card. And as has been discussed before, the print jobs on these cards is an abomination. Print defects everywhere. If you escape with a clean front and miraculous clean corners you probably have a big white fisheye on the orange back.

    And that's what you're pulling from fresh wax. Forget about what's out there that's been stored raw for the past 28 years. Everybody forgets that there was a period of time when people realized that the hobby boom of the late-'80s/early-'90s wasn't going to pay for their kids' college or let them retire early and there was a huge backlash against everything from that period. Everything that wasn't HOF got declared worthless and tons of stuff was thrown out or just abused out of spite. When I first started this project I bought tons of raw lots off eBay and let me tell you, these cards haven't been kept in penny sleeves and top loaders, or even monster boxes. Much of what survived raw was EX-MT / NM.

    I realize this sort of flys in the face of typical E&V collecting. It's not so much about condition as it is finding the bizarre rarity that no one else cares about. But the disparity in rarity (I'm copyrighting that) on 90% of these between finding them and finding them in gem condition is so large that I thought it warranted mentioning.

    Arthur
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 12-06-2018 at 08:47 AM.
    I need a Donruss intervention.

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