Adrian Beltre Future HOFer?

Phishmon23 · Aug 31, 2011

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I actually think he's got a decent shot. Definitely the best defensive 3B (Chavez maybe...) of his generation and near the top all-time defensively. I think he has an excellent chance an 400HR and should easily eclipse 2500H. I agree he probably needs 3000H to make the Hall, but he's got a shot considering his superb defense.

-J

timthomas · Aug 31, 2011

I really dont think of him as a hof but if he gets 3000 I guess he would have to get in

Jojo

Mozzie22 · Aug 31, 2011

Phishmon23 said:
I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I actually think he's got a decent shot. Definitely the best defensive 3B (Chavez maybe...) of his generation and near the top all-time defensively. I think he has an excellent chance an 400HR and should easily eclipse 2500H. I agree he probably needs 3000H to make the Hall, but he's got a shot considering his superb defense.

-J

Scott Rolen is the best defensive 3B of his generation and it's not even close. Brooks Robinson and Mike Schmidt have both said that Rolen is a better defensive 3B than they were and there is no higher praise than those two. That being said, I think Beltre is going to fall into the Andruw Jones/Jim Edmonds zone of better than most people thought but won't make it.

HPC · Aug 31, 2011

If you talk Beltre, might as well consider Matt Williams

997 Runs
1878 Hits
338 2B
35 3B
378 HR
1218 RBI
469 Walks
.268 AVG
.317 OBG
.489 SLG
.806 OPS

compared to Beltre's

1996 Hits
426 2B
28 3B
298 HR
1084 RBI
540 Walks
.275 AVG
.328 OBP
.464 SLG
.792 OPS

sportscardtheory · Aug 31, 2011

HPC said:
If you talk Beltre, might as well consider Matt Williams

997 Runs
1878 Hits
338 2B
35 3B
378 HR
1218 RBI
469 Walks
.268 AVG
.317 OBG
.489 SLG
.806 OPS

compared to Beltre's

1996 Hits
426 2B
28 3B
298 HR
1084 RBI
540 Walks
.275 AVG
.328 OBP
.464 SLG
.792 OPS

Is Matt Williams till playing?

elmalo · Aug 31, 2011

sportscardtheory said:
George Brett at age 32 - G 1617 PA 6950 AB 6234 R 1002 H 1967 2B 400 3B 108 HR 193 RBI 978 SB 140 CS 72 BB 615 SO 444 BA .316 OBP .375 SLG .507 OPS .882 OPS+ 143 TB 3162 WAR 70.2 Defensive WAR 57
Adrian Beltre at age 32 - G 1935 PA 7939 AB 7262 R 973 H 1996 2B 426 3B 28 HR 298 RBI 1084 SB 113 CS 40 BB 540 SO 1206 BA .275 OBP .328 SLG .464 OPS .792 OPS+ 109 TB 3372 WAR 54.4 Defensive WAR 152.9

I'm not saying Beltre is like Brett or is anywhere near as good as Brett was, but he could certainly be a "poor man's George Brett" and skate into the Hall if he gets 3,000+ hits. According to Defensive WAR, he's one of the best defensive 3rd basemen to ever play the game.

I think with him and Brett thre are some huge differences. 1. It was a differnt era 2. Brett hit for average and 3. Brett was a superstar. One of the most popular playrs of his generation.

pujols5hof · Aug 31, 2011

his obp and slugging rule it out plain and simple. its the same problem that craig biggio will be facing in a few years.

scotty21690 · Aug 31, 2011

He is a great player and definitely one of the better defensive 3rd basemen I've seen, but I say he won't make it in. If he does then it will make a case for several other non-deserving/borderline players.

Anthony K. · Aug 31, 2011

HPC said:
If you talk Beltre, might as well consider Matt Williams

997 Runs
1878 Hits
338 2B
35 3B
378 HR
1218 RBI
469 Walks
.268 AVG
.317 OBG
.489 SLG
.806 OPS

compared to Beltre's

1996 Hits
426 2B
28 3B
298 HR
1084 RBI
540 Walks
.275 AVG
.328 OBP
.464 SLG
.792 OPS

I take it you think Beltre will be retiring at the end of the year? If not, then why compare an ACTIVE player who will be playing beyond this season to a player who will never log another big league at bat?

pujols5hof said:
his obp and slugging rule it out plain and simple. its the same problem that craig biggio will be facing in a few years.

I'm willing to bet TWO statistics is NOT a problem Biggio will be facing in a few years. Surefire Hall of Famer in my and MANY, MANY people's opinions.

tpeichel · Aug 31, 2011

Brewer Andy said:
The additional respect I had for you after the Ajax dog food post was just rescinded :lol: I kid. But no way.

You know deep down he's a virtual lock.

elmalo · Aug 31, 2011

Anthony K. said:
HPC said:

If you talk Beltre, might as well consider Matt Williams

997 Runs
1878 Hits
338 2B
35 3B
378 HR
1218 RBI
469 Walks
.268 AVG
.317 OBG
.489 SLG
.806 OPS

compared to Beltre's

1996 Hits
426 2B
28 3B
298 HR
1084 RBI
540 Walks
.275 AVG
.328 OBP
.464 SLG
.792 OPS

Click to expand...

I take it you think Beltre will be retiring at the end of the year? If not, then why compare an ACTIVE player who will be playing beyond this season to a player who will never log another big league at bat?

pujols5hof said:

his obp and slugging rule it out plain and simple. its the same problem that craig biggio will be facing in a few years.

Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet TWO statistics is NOT a problem Biggio will be facing in a few years. Surefire Hall of Famer in my and MANY, MANY people's opinions.

H also isnt a Hall of Famer in many peoples opinions. He was a hell of a player, but the only stat he has that really stands out is the 3000 hits.

sportscardtheory · Aug 31, 2011

All Craig Biggio has is 3,000+ hits? lol I swear, some people NEVER pay attention to player's stats and accomplishments as compared to their positional peers.

scotty21690 · Aug 31, 2011

elmalo said:
H also isnt a Hall of Famer in many peoples opinions. He was a hell of a player, but the only stat he has that really stands out is the 3000 hits.

And how many HOF'ers with 3,000 hits played the majority of their career at second base? Two?

Not to mention baseball reference thinks he is a HOFer:

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 169 (65), Likely HOFer ? 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 57 (49), Average HOFer ? 50

sportscardtheory · Aug 31, 2011

scotty21690 said:
elmalo said:

H also isnt a Hall of Famer in many peoples opinions. He was a hell of a player, but the only stat he has that really stands out is the 3000 hits.

Click to expand...

And how many HOF'ers with 3,000 hits played the majority of their career at second base? Two?

Not to mention baseball reference thinks he is a HOFer:

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 169 (65), Likely HOFer ? 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 57 (49), Average HOFer ? 50

Don't forget to add that Biggio scored more runs than any other second basemen in the HISTORY of baseball.

tpeichel · Aug 31, 2011

HPC said:
What's with all these threads asking "is so and so a future HOFer?" when the guy isnt even close to retirement?

It's interesting to speculate.

scotty21690 · Aug 31, 2011

sportscardtheory said:
scotty21690 said:

elmalo said:

H also isnt a Hall of Famer in many peoples opinions. He was a hell of a player, but the only stat he has that really stands out is the 3000 hits.

Click to expand...

And how many HOF'ers with 3,000 hits played the majority of their career at second base? Two?

Not to mention baseball reference thinks he is a HOFer:

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 169 (65), Likely HOFer ? 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 57 (49), Average HOFer ? 50

Click to expand...

Don't forget to add that Biggio scored more runs than any other second basemen in the HISTORY of baseball.

Good call.

Actually the only two players to score 1800+ runs and hit 600+ doubles and not be in the HOF are Rose and Bonds. He is in some good company.

elmalo · Aug 31, 2011

sportscardtheory said:
All Craig Biggio has is 3,000+ hits? lol I swear, some people NEVER pay attention to player's stats and accomplishments as compared to their positional peers.

That is the one stat that seperates him, yes. He was not Roberto Alomar. Jeff Kent was a better hitter. Biggios 162 game ave is similar to Carlos Baergas. Infact, surprisingly they are also similar to Chuck Knoblauchs.

scotty21690 · Aug 31, 2011

elmalo said:
sportscardtheory said:

All Craig Biggio has is 3,000+ hits? lol I swear, some people NEVER pay attention to player's stats and accomplishments as compared to their positional peers.

Click to expand...

That is the one stat that seperates him, yes. He was not Roberto Alomar. Jeff Kent was a better hitter. Biggios 162 game ave is similar to Carlos Baergas. Infact, surprisingly they are also similar to Chuck Knoblauchs.

Except Biggio kept up that pace for 20 seasons. Baerga? 14. (If you can even call it that) Baerga also never led the league in anything!

OPS+ 111 - Biggio
OPS+ 100 - Baerga

Kent may be a better offensive player, but surprisingly Biggio has the higher career OBP and had some solid speed to boot making him just as valuable.

sportscardtheory · Aug 31, 2011

elmalo said:
sportscardtheory said:

All Craig Biggio has is 3,000+ hits? lol I swear, some people NEVER pay attention to player's stats and accomplishments as compared to their positional peers.

Click to expand...

That is the one stat that seperates him, yes. He was not Roberto Alomar. Jeff Kent was a better hitter. Biggios 162 game ave is similar to Carlos Baergas. Infact, surprisingly they are also similar to Chuck Knoblauchs.

Biggio's stats compared with all-time 2nd basemen (top-5 or better)

Runs - 1st
Doubles - 1st
Hit by pitch - 1st
Win probability added - 1st
Hits - 3rd
Homeruns - 4th

elmalo · Aug 31, 2011

scotty21690 said:
elmalo said:

sportscardtheory said:

All Craig Biggio has is 3,000+ hits? lol I swear, some people NEVER pay attention to player's stats and accomplishments as compared to their positional peers.

Click to expand...

That is the one stat that seperates him, yes. He was not Roberto Alomar. Jeff Kent was a better hitter. Biggios 162 game ave is similar to Carlos Baergas. Infact, surprisingly they are also similar to Chuck Knoblauchs.

Click to expand...

Except Biggio kept up that pace for 20 seasons. Baerga? 14. (If you can even call it that) Baerga also never led the league in anything!

OPS+ 111 - Biggio
OPS+ 100 - Baerga

Kent may be a better offensive player, but surprisingly Biggio has the higher career OBP and had some solid speed to boot making him just as valuable.

I didnt say Baerga was better, I just say that they have similar 162 game averags.

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