Could Juan Pierre be the 1st 3,000 hit member not in HOF?

Captain Feathersword · Sep 5, 2011

Pierre's career is based on his legs not his bat. If he hits 2000, then he will need about 6 more years to get to 3000 with his averages not dropping off for age. That would put him at 40 years old when he would get to 3000. I wonder how many of the 2000 hits have been bunt singles. I know he was very good at that early in his career.

nosterbor · Sep 5, 2011

He craps out at 2500, if he does get 3000 he is in. if Ozzie Smith is in with a SLG of .328 anything can happen.
I hate his OPS .666

I would have struck out my last 36 at bats.

A_Pharis · Sep 5, 2011

He's a Louisiana boy, so I have to support him. At one time, he was one of the fastest guys in the Majors. That said, I don't think he'll make it to 3000. Maybe 2500 - 2750 and will go down as a "local legend".

ccouch (Chad) · Sep 5, 2011

He's not getting 1,000 more hits. He's already indescribably bad in the field, and as his legs go, he'll be the worst defensive outfielder in the blink of an eye. He'll be too much of a liability in the field for anybody to keep him around. He'll be out of the league in 3-4 years.

predatorkj · Sep 5, 2011

tikitomoka said:
He's not going to get 3000.

This!

And...to add on to Schmidtfan's idea, I do agree, you have to be a damn good player to hang on more than 20 years in the league. With the average $$$ these guys make a year, you either have to produce, or be a young propsect they hope will bloom. If you aren't one of those two things, your ass is toast!

nborton · Sep 5, 2011

Topnotchsy said:
To the OP's point, I think that if he reached 3000 hits (which as the OP stated, is very unlikely, but theoretically feasible) he would eventually get in, and it would be the thing that creates enough of an uproar to get the voters to actually use their heads. He has never really been a very valuable player, canceling out much, if not all of the value he gained stealing bases, by getting caught so often.

What I think some are saying is that the reason 3000 hits has been a useful milestone is because it is simply close to impossible to do without being a really good player for a long time, and that is the reason Pierre will not make it.

Exactly. IF, and it's a huge IF, anyone gets to 3,000 they most likely will make it. 3,000 hits is much harder than people realize. You have to average 200+ hits for 15 years straight. Two guys had 200+ hits last season. In general 5 or less guys get 200+ hits each season.

Of course you could play longer, but 15 years is a pretty long career for most players. The average is supposedly 5-6 years now. So three times the average is a good career. Especially considering the first two years of most guys careers aren't full seasons, and the last few aren't very productive. So if he were able to somehow get to 3,000, he should get in.

JEA2880 · Sep 5, 2011

Shockingly Pierre is only 33 years old so it isn't impossible. With a career average of .297, if he could get it up above .300 it would be impressive. He also could end up a top 10 SB guy all time as well (he's currently #26 all time and 7 of the current top 10 are in the Hall). I clicked this thinking you were crazy but now I don't know what to think! :lol:

Topnotchsy · Sep 5, 2011

JEA2880 said:
Shockingly Pierre is only 33 years old so it isn't impossible. With a career average of .297, if he could get it up above .300 it would be impressive. He also could end up a top 10 SB guy all time as well (he's currently #26 all time and 7 of the current top 10 are in the Hall). I clicked this thinking you were crazy but now I don't know what to think! :lol:

The problem is that his batting average is largely empty (16 career homeruns, and an average of roughly 20 2B's a season.) He does not walk much, so his OBP is low despite the batting average, and his stolen bases are essentially worthless because he is caught stealing so frequently in an era with better understanding to recognize the values of such performances. The way I see it, he has only had a couple of seasons where he was even an average offensive player, let alone a star.

nborton · Sep 5, 2011

Topnotchsy said:
JEA2880 said:

Shockingly Pierre is only 33 years old so it isn't impossible. With a career average of .297, if he could get it up above .300 it would be impressive. He also could end up a top 10 SB guy all time as well (he's currently #26 all time and 7 of the current top 10 are in the Hall). I clicked this thinking you were crazy but now I don't know what to think! :lol:

Click to expand...

The problem is that his batting average is largely empty (16 career homeruns, and an average of roughly 20 2B's a season.) He does not walk much, so his OBP is low despite the batting average, and his stolen bases are essentially worthless because he is caught stealing so frequently in an era with better understanding to recognize the values of such performances. The way I see it, he has only had a couple of seasons where he was even an average offensive player, let alone a star.

All of which is why he won't make it to 3,000.

boomo · Sep 5, 2011

an FCB member will fly to mars before pierre gets 3000 hits.
no chance ever. and none of those guys under current voting
system are getting in the hall, none of them

phillyfan0417 · Sep 17, 2013

Went a little old school to find this but I just noticed juan pierre now has as many hits as Joe Dimaggio...

200lbhockeyplayer · Sep 17, 2013

phillyfan0417 said:
Went a little old school to find this but I just noticed juan pierre now has as many hits as Joe Dimaggio...

While Pierre acquired 500+ hits, DiMaggio served for 3 years in WWII. Sure, DiMaggio had a cushy, cushy assignment...but missing his three prime seasons left him 500+ hits short.

That said...Juan Pierre should be happy assuming he reaches 2500 hits.

phillyfan0417 · Sep 17, 2013

200lbhockeyplayer said:
While Pierre acquired 500+ hits, DiMaggio served for 3 years in WWII. Sure, DiMaggio had a cushy, cushy assignment...but missing his three prime seasons left him 500+ hits short.

That said...Juan Pierre should be happy assuming he reaches 2500 hits.

Agree 100%. I just thought it was a fun thing to chew on

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BBCgalaxee · Sep 17, 2013

I thought he retired years ago

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A_Pharis · Sep 17, 2013

Small(ER) markets. Not a power hitter. Little love.

Juan was a great player for every team he's been on. He's been a reliable hitter, and (in the past) had great speed. At one time, I believe he was ranked as the fastest base runner in the MLB.

Hawk8 · Sep 17, 2013

I like Juan Pierre, he is a local sports hero. He came into the store I help manage one time and every customer wanted to stop and talk to him and he was very nice about it. Although I do not think he is Hall of Fame worthy, I believe some posters are unjustly trying to attempt to devalue his stats.

I understand the HOF debate as some people do not believe Dawson should have gotten in. If you dig into most HOF stats there would be a hole or two in what some would consider a Hall of Fame career.

Mozzie22 · Sep 17, 2013

A_Pharis said:
Small(ER) markets. Not a power hitter. Little love.

Juan was a great player for every team he's been on. He's been a reliable hitter, and (in the past) had great speed. At one time, I believe he was ranked as the fastest base runner in the MLB.

Yeah, I don't think so unless your definition of great is not the conventional one. Truly great players don't play for seven different teams. A very good player? Sure. Great? nope.

matfanofold · Sep 17, 2013

Did not read the whole thread but I will say this....

3000 hits or even 500 HR's these days on a resume of a player who is strictly a compiler, meaning they really never achieved team and/or individual success, never really achieved a level of popularity usually reserved for potential HOF candidates, and never really fit the definition of a 'great ball player' from a public definition, then the likelihood of a HOF induction is dwindling rapidly.

A_Pharis · Sep 17, 2013

Mozzie22 said:
Yeah, I don't think so unless your definition of great is not the conventional one. Truly great players don't play for seven different teams. A very good player? Sure. Great? nope.

Great has to do with more than just pure ability. Sometimes great is in reference to how they represent the team. I may just have missed it, but has Pierre ever really been a drama queen?

Mozzie22 · Sep 17, 2013

A_Pharis said:
Great has to do with more than just pure ability. Sometimes great is in reference to how they represent the team. I may just have missed it, but has Pierre ever really been a drama queen?

You can be a great teammate and a great person but that doesn't make you a great player. Also, Ty Cobb was a P.O.S by all accounts but he was a great player. I'm not sure how Pierre was perceived by his teammates or if her ever had issues but he will end up in the hall of very good.

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