Who is the best current non-Cy Young winning pitcher?

I am hoping to see Cahill added to that list

scotty21690 said:

markakis8 said:

There is three ways you can look at this and I'm not sure which one you want.

Best career: Toss up between Oswalt and Hudson
Best season that didn't win Cy Young: Again, Oswalt and Hudson, possibly Ubaldo
Best pitcher today: Probably Josh Johnson or Strasburg

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Best pitcher today...which I suppose would incorporate all of the above into the results.

Like pretty much who would you want to be your Opening Day starting pitcher. Do you want Strasburg who recently recovered from TJ and might only give you 5 strong innings, or do you want the veteran Tim Hudson who will give you 7 solid innings?


It's easy to say that Verlander and Halladay are two of the best pitchers in the bigs...but it seems a bit tougher to choose the non-Cy winners. This is not a future potential thread but who do you think is best right now...a year ago from today I might have said Wainwright, but it's tough to say that now...crazy to think that the Cardinals won the World Series without him.

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Of all the pitchers you have listed, I would easily take Josh Johnson for an opening day start.

MojoDan said:

I am hoping to see Cahill added to that list

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Over his (now former) teammate Gio?!

We will give Cahill one year to bounce back before he is on the list

scotty21690 said:

MojoDan said:

I am hoping to see Cahill added to that list

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Over his (now former) teammate Gio?!

We will give Cahill one year to bounce back before he is on the list

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Both are going to do well this season with their new clubs. I would have been thrilled to see either in Boston.

For me it's easily Josh Johnson. When healthy he is a top-10, maybe even top-5 pitcher. Great stuff, good command, and a gutsy pitcher. Only throwing 200+ IP once in his career is some serious baggage, though.

MojoDan said:

Both are going to do well this season with their new clubs. I would have been thrilled to see either in Boston.

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Can't argue with that, Dan.

chompsmcgee said:

For me it's easily Josh Johnson. When healthy he is a top-10, maybe even top-5 pitcher. Great stuff, good command, and a gutsy pitcher. Only throwing 200+ IP once in his career is some serious baggage, though.

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Yeah, Johnson would be the easy pick but he is such a big "if" pitcher. I would be more inclined to choose someone who has not been injured half of their career.

Adam Wainwright


If it wasn't for Lincy winning a few years,and splitting votes with his own teammate he may have a few already.


He'll get his eventually.

Wainwright would have easily finished top 3 Cy last season if not for TJ surgery...he is one hell of a pitcher.

Though not having pitched in a year it's not easy to still declare him the best non-Cy pitcher out there (like I previously mentioned he'd be the guy I picked this time last year)

It's crazy to me that Wainwright got the most 1st place votes in 2009 yet he still finished in 3rd place.


How on Earth would 15 people give him 15 3rd place votes in that season? He won 19 games and lost 8. Lincecum won 15 and lost 7. While Carpenter won 17 and lost 4.


That years voting just blows my mind.

Sam Banks said:

It's crazy to me that Wainwright got the most 1st place votes in 2009 yet he still finished in 3rd place.


How on Earth would 15 people give him 15 3rd place votes in that season? He won 19 games and lost 8. Lincecum won 15 and lost 7. While Carpenter won 17 and lost 4.


That years voting just blows my mind.

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Because people who vote on the Cy Young are smart enough to not use W-L records.

I'd like to hope Dan Haren gets one before his career but I am not sure if he will.

Also Johnny Cueto has a really good season last year considering he missed the beginning and end of the season. The funny part was nobody really noticed.

I would like to see Gallardo or Latos win a Cy Young.

In a couple of hours you can add Yu Darvish to this list.

Or maybe sooner.

I'm going to answer it with a dual answer, since these would be my picks for the 2012 CY award

NL: Hamels
AL: Price

Wes said:

Sam Banks said:

It's crazy to me that Wainwright got the most 1st place votes in 2009 yet he still finished in 3rd place.


How on Earth would 15 people give him 15 3rd place votes in that season? He won 19 games and lost 8. Lincecum won 15 and lost 7. While Carpenter won 17 and lost 4.


That years voting just blows my mind.

Click to expand...

Because people who vote on the Cy Young are smart enough to not use W-L records.

Click to expand...

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It shouldn't only be based on wins and losses, but that particular season, it's a joke that Lincecum won.

DRav87 said:

I'd like to hope Dan Haren gets one before his career but I am not sure if he will.

Also Johnny Cueto has a really good season last year considering he missed the beginning and end of the season. The funny part was nobody really noticed.

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Dan Haren easily has a shot...last year was the lowest walk rate of his career. Not to mention he can handle a big workload over a full season, nearly 1600 IP over his past 7 seasons. Oh, did I mention he has a K/BB over 5 in 3 of his past 4 seasons? Crazy!


Cueto has had an interesting career so far....in 4 seasons his ERA, WHIP, H/9, HR/9, BB/9 have went down every year but so has his K/9. Should be primed for a breakout season.

Sam Banks said:

Wes said:

[quote="Sam Banks":2nwliug2]It's crazy to me that Wainwright got the most 1st place votes in 2009 yet he still finished in 3rd place.


How on Earth would 15 people give him 15 3rd place votes in that season? He won 19 games and lost 8. Lincecum won 15 and lost 7. While Carpenter won 17 and lost 4.


That years voting just blows my mind.

Click to expand...

Because people who vote on the Cy Young are smart enough to not use W-L records.

Click to expand...

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It shouldn't only be based on wins and losses, but that particular season, it's a joke that Lincecum won.[/quote:2nwliug2]

I don't know what all those symbols are supposed to mean, but it's definitely not a joke.

Lincecum had a higher WAR, better ERA, better WHIP, better K/BB rate, better K/9 rate and better H/9 rate than Wainwright. Where's the joke?

scotty21690 said:

D-Lite said:

scotty21690 said:

Huffamaniac said:

were is 200 game winner Tim Wakefield :lol:

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I must have thought he had won a few Cy's back in his day.

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Haha, when exactly was back in his day? Has Wakefield ever had a "day"?

And I know you're going for a larger list, but half those names just need to be X'd off. Wandy and CJ? Nice pitchers, but come on.

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If you read it you would know I wanted as many solid pitchers as I could find. I tried to get at least one name from all of the teams for the sake of discussion. Many names have already been mentioned so it's tough to narrow down a list like this one.

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I understand the point of the list, sure, but even including Wandy and CJ using the criteria of one from each team is reaching.

Also, about leaving out relievers, is it because you're opposed to them winning the Cy Young or just for the sake of this discussion? I think it would have to be an amazing season for a reliever to be even considered for the award, such as Gagne or Eck had.

I agree that Lincecum winning was a joke but I feel it was Carpenter that was screwed.

Sam Banks said:

Wes said:

[quote="Sam Banks":2c6eqvuc]It's crazy to me that Wainwright got the most 1st place votes in 2009 yet he still finished in 3rd place.


How on Earth would 15 people give him 15 3rd place votes in that season? He won 19 games and lost 8. Lincecum won 15 and lost 7. While Carpenter won 17 and lost 4.


That years voting just blows my mind.

Click to expand...

Because people who vote on the Cy Young are smart enough to not use W-L records.

Click to expand...

............................................________
....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
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................./......................................................,:`^`..}
.............../...................................................,:"........./
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.\`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\
.............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__
,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|..............`=~-,
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.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_\..........._,-%.......`\
...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\



It shouldn't only be based on wins and losses, but that particular season, it's a joke that Lincecum won.[/quote:2c6eqvuc]

D-Lite said:

scotty21690 said:

[quote="D-Lite":1b6f5fig]

scotty21690 said:

Huffamaniac said:

were is 200 game winner Tim Wakefield :lol:

Click to expand...

I must have thought he had won a few Cy's back in his day.

Click to expand...

Haha, when exactly was back in his day? Has Wakefield ever had a "day"?

And I know you're going for a larger list, but half those names just need to be X'd off. Wandy and CJ? Nice pitchers, but come on.

Click to expand...

If you read it you would know I wanted as many solid pitchers as I could find. I tried to get at least one name from all of the teams for the sake of discussion. Many names have already been mentioned so it's tough to narrow down a list like this one.

Click to expand...

I understand the point of the list, sure, but even including Wandy and CJ using the criteria of one from each team is reaching.

Also, about leaving out relievers, is it because you're opposed to them winning the Cy Young or just for the sake of this discussion? I think it would have to be an amazing season for a reliever to be even considered for the award, such as Gagne or Eck had.[/quote:1b6f5fig]
I don't even know why I bother responding to you...it's starting pitcher only. How the hell is that hard to understand?

Who cares what pitcher is on the list? You have contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion, as per usual.