Has David Ortiz overtaken Edgar Martinez as the greatest DH ever?

David Ortiz and Edgar Martinez have played roughly the same number of games and at bats, so it's fair to compare their careers.

I think it's a virtual tie, but I would give the edge to Ortiz based on his importance to the Red Sox and legendary postseason heroics.
Ortiz has a freaking .445 avg. with 14 rbi in 3 World Series! That's insane.
It's not Martinez's fault his Mariners teams were bad, but you have to give Ortiz a bonus for being so dominant in 3 World Series.

Martinez's WAR and batting average are significantly higher, but Ortiz has much more home runs, rbi and 5x the Top 5 MVP vote seasons.

Ortiz: 2045 games, 7344 at bats
Martinez: 2055 games, 7213 at bats

Ortiz: .285 avg., 2093 hits, 530 doubles, 448 hr, 1475 rbi, 1239 runs scored, 1130 bb
Martinez: .312 avg., 2247 hits, 513 doubles, 309 hr, 1261 rbi, 1213 runs scored, 1283 bb

Ortiz: .926 OPS
Martinez: .933 OPS

Ortiz: 45.8 WAR
Martinez: 65.3 WAR

Ortiz: 5 Top 5 MVP finishes
Martinez: 1 Top 5 MVP finish

Ortiz: 9 All-Star games
Martinez: 7 All-Star games

Ortiz: 0 Batting Titles, 1 home run title, 2 rbi titles, 2 walk titles, 1 OBP, 0 OPS
Martinez : 2 Batting Titles, 0 home run titles, 1 rbi title, 0 walk titles, 3 OBP, 1 OPS

Ortiz: 2004 AL ALCS MVP
2005 AL Hank Aaron Award
2011 Roberto Clemente Award
2013 AL Babe Ruth Award
2013 WS MVP

Martinez:
2004 Roberto Clemente Award

What about Molitor? Do they have to be a defensive black hole their entire career to be considered?

Interesting convo. I'd probably give the edge to Ortiz but Edgar was good too.


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Edge to Ortiz because power and run production seem more important to me in the DH spot.

I would take Edgar. I'd much rather have an all around hitter that hits for high average and average pop than someone who hits for average average and high(er) pop.

Plus, Edgar is CLEAN. Is Ortiz? We will never know....

maxe0213 said:

I would take Edgar. I'd much rather have an all around hitter that hits for high average and average pop than someone who hits for average average and high(er) pop.

Plus, Edgar is CLEAN. Is Ortiz? We will never know....

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And here is the entry of the ROID conversation lol...


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hive17 said:

What about Molitor? Do they have to be a defensive black hole their entire career to be considered?

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I don't consider Molitor and Frank Thomas full-time designated hitters because they were in the field for much of their careers. Molitor is usually listed on 3rd base all-time lists, while Thomas is compared to 1st basemen.
Ortiz and Martinez are predominantly DHs.

maxe0213 said:

Plus, Edgar is CLEAN. Is Ortiz? We will never know....

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And how do you know for sure Edgar was clean? Rhetorical question. Please don't turn this into a steroid debate.

Austin said:

And how do you know for sure Edgar was clean? Rhetorical question. Please don't turn this into a steroid debate.

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This!

I'm so tired of the my guy is clean, and your guy is probably not argument. If you are basing it on facts, they are both clean. If you are guessing about it, then there is now reason to believe either is more likely clean than the other.

Bootstraps9 said:

This!

I'm so tired of the my guy is clean, and your guy is probably not argument. If you are basing it on facts, they are both clean. If you are guessing about it, then there is now reason to believe either is more likely clean than the other.

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Ortiz did fail a drug test though. To my knowledge Edgar never did.

djrulz said:

Ortiz did fail a drug test though. To my knowledge Edgar never did.

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Ortiz has claimed he has not been able to get an info on this and does not know why he failed the test in 2003, but people seem to forget/ignore that he ever tested positive. I hate the fact that it's likely we will never know for sure what the deal is but with the failed test I've never viewed Ortiz as someone I would consider "greatest" in anything.

JUICE!

MansGame said:

And here is the entry of the ROID conversation lol...


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Haha I figured it would come up so I more brought it up as a joke. Anything with Ortiz in it people bring in that failed test.

Even without that I still take Edgar though. I like the average over the power. If you pitch Ortiz right he's a fairly easy out. However people always try to go inside on him and miss and he turns on it.

Please guys, don't turn this into a steroid discussion. Just base your opinions on the two players' stats and accomplishments.

Edgar = best DH ever. Period.

IDK why anyone would take Edgar over Ortiz just by looking at stats alone. Don't even need to look at awards or anything if we're talking about which player you'd want up hitting with the game on the line or if you were starting a team and needed one or the other to be your DH. Ortiz isn't materially far off when it comes to BA and he clearly is the more dominate hitter... I guess people can disagree or throw out the juice argument but that's just my take.

MansGame said:

IDK why anyone would take Edgar over Ortiz just by looking at stats alone. Don't even need to look at awards or anything if we're talking about which player you'd want up hitting with the game on the line or if you were starting a team and needed one or the other to be your DH. Ortiz isn't materially far off when it comes to BA and he clearly is the more dominate hitter... I guess people can disagree or throw out the juice argument but that's just my take.

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And having watched him for 10 years now he is the most clutch hitter I've ever seen. If you need a big hit to win the game, he's your guy.

Not taking anything away from Martinez, he's easily the 2nd best ever DH but Ortiz is hands down number 1.

AmishDave said:

Edgar = best DH ever. Period.

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There is no such thing as Period in "best of" athlete debates.
Cases can be made for both players. Please explain why you think Edgar is the best ever.

maxe0213 said:

I would take Edgar. I'd much rather have an all around hitter that hits for high average and average pop than someone who hits for average average and high(er) pop.

Plus, Edgar is CLEAN. Is Ortiz? We will never know....

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I wouldnt be so confident that Edgar Martinez is/was clean.

Id take Ortiz.