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Jason Heyward/Jordan Walden Traded to the Cardinals For Shelby Miller/Tyrell Jenkins

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Jaypers

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
48,895
1,378
IL
Wow. Just wow.

Braves, Cardinals Trade Jason Heyward For Shelby Miller
By Mark Polishuk [November 17, 2014 at 11:11am CST]
The Cardinals have acquired right fielder Jason Heyward and right-hander Jordan Walden from the Braves in exchange for righty Shelby Miller and pitching prospect Tyrell Jenkins, the teams announced.
 

jaydub

Member
Jun 18, 2010
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Arvada, CO
Makes some sense position wise as the Cards had something of a surplus of starter or potential starters and needed an OF to replace Taveras.
 

Super Mario

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2009
18,242
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Mushroom Kingdom
At first glance, I don't like the trade.

I don't like giving up Shelby for a one year, horribly injury prone, rental.

Hopefully this means Max Scherzer is going to sign with the Cardinals now.
 

MrMet

Well-known member
Apr 6, 2010
13,556
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The Poconos
Wonder how Braves fans/Cardinals fans feel about this!? I'm happy to have Heyward out of the division, but wasn't he a homegrown Atlanta boy fan favorite kinda thing? And I would think Cards fans had a small love affair with Miller, but I think I'd prefer a player that can help me every day over a guy once every five days
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
171
At first glance, I don't like the trade.

I don't like giving up Shelby for a one year, horribly injury prone, rental.

Hopefully this means Max Scherzer is going to sign with the Cardinals now.

Miller was flat out horrible last season and seems to be taking steps back in his progress. No loss cutting loose of him now when he actually has some value.

Heyward is extremely valuable to have in your OF. He is a gifted defender with speed and power. The Braves letting him walk is foolish, with another year of control and to only get a bottom of the rotation starter from the deal. Having a player for a full season is not a rental and it increases your opportunity to get ahead of the market if you do want to extend the player. Great move for the Cardinals.
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
171
...........I would also like to add that Heyward played in 149 games this past season. I would think getting hit in the face, would not be considered being prone to injury.
 

James52411

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May 22, 2010
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Cardinals only win the trade if they re-sign Heyward. Miller could be a middle of the rotation guy for the next decade, with potential upside to be better than that.
 

bmp1971

Active member
Jun 8, 2010
5,712
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New Hampshire
Miller was flat out horrible last season and seems to be taking steps back in his progress. No loss cutting loose of him now when he actually has some value.

Heyward is extremely valuable to have in your OF. He is a gifted defender with speed and power. The Braves letting him walk is foolish, with another year of control and to only get a bottom of the rotation starter from the deal. Having a player for a full season is not a rental and it increases your opportunity to get ahead of the market if you do want to extend the player. Great move for the Cardinals.

Given his stats, would you care to explain your sentiments? He had 23 starts in 2014 where he gave up 3 ER or less. He gave up only 5 ER in 5 starts in Sept, finishing the year very strong. He's just turned 24 and has a career record of 26-18 with a 3.33 ERA (10-9 with 3.74 ERA in 2014)- at the major league level, and for his age, these are excellent numbers. I cannot see him being "flat out horrible" at any point this past season, nor do I see him taking any steps backwards in his progress as a pitcher, as you say. All that said, I'm open to hearing why you are knocking the guy so harshly.

My vote: Braves win in this trade
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
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Heyward was good for what 1 season. WAY overrated.

Saying he had one good season is not understanding his value.

Given his stats, would you care to explain your sentiments? He had 23 starts in 2014 where he gave up 3 ER or less. He gave up only 5 ER in 5 starts in Sept, finishing the year very strong. He's just turned 24 and has a career record of 26-18 with a 3.33 ERA (10-9 with 3.74 ERA in 2014)- at the major league level, and for his age, these are excellent numbers. I cannot see him being "flat out horrible" at any point this past season, nor do I see him taking any steps backwards in his progress as a pitcher, as you say. All that said, I'm open to hearing why you are knocking the guy so harshly.

My vote: Braves win in this trade

Looking into his numbers, I made one criteria being a minimum of 180 inning pitched. There were 66 listed pitchers from the list and Miller ranked last of those listed. His strikeout rate was just 6.25/per 9 and his walk rate was 3.59/per 9. While his ERA on the season was 3.74, his FIP was 4.54 with a ranking of 64th of the 66 listed. While there is value in pitching 180+ innings in a season, his overall value was basically at a replacement level.
 

cards01fan

New member
Sep 4, 2008
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As a Someone who watched the Cards everyday,in August Miller turned the corner. It is a disappointing trade to me. Plus have you looked at Heyward's #'s against lefties? Ugh
 

jcmint

Super Moderator
Aug 7, 2008
5,677
2
Great trade by the Braves, Heywards power is avg for a RF or below avg. His defense is his strong suit. Heyward is gonna want a hug payday. Braves got back a good young arm to insert in a good young controllable rotation.
 

SINFULONE

Active member
Sep 26, 2008
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Given his stats, would you care to explain your sentiments? He had 23 starts in 2014 where he gave up 3 ER or less. He gave up only 5 ER in 5 starts in Sept, finishing the year very strong. He's just turned 24 and has a career record of 26-18 with a 3.33 ERA (10-9 with 3.74 ERA in 2014)- at the major league level, and for his age, these are excellent numbers. I cannot see him being "flat out horrible" at any point this past season, nor do I see him taking any steps backwards in his progress as a pitcher, as you say. All that said, I'm open to hearing why you are knocking the guy so harshly.

My vote: Braves win in this trade

That may be true, but for the majority of the season he was nothing more than a 5 inning pitcher whose pitch count is way too high by walking so many hitters, and not holding runners better.There is no question he has regressed.Maybe the Braves pitching coach can turn him around.
 

SINFULONE

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Sep 26, 2008
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Braves bullpen is going to rack up some serious innings when Miller is at 120 pitches through 5 innings.
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
171
Great trade by the Braves, Heywards power is avg for a RF or below avg. His defense is his strong suit. Heyward is gonna want a hug payday. Braves got back a good young arm to insert in a good young controllable rotation.

Heyward's value is not his power, it is the culmination of his skills. I do not give much credence to the theory that a certain position must have a certain type of offensive skill set. Meaning, just because a lot of power hitters occupy the 1st base position does not mean you do not get value at that position without power numbers. Heyward's value is in run creation and prevention. You do not have to be a power hitter to be valuable in run creation. And as you stated, though understated, he is the best defensive RF'er in the game and by a wide margin. He certainly will be in for a pay raise going into his 2016 season, but what do you see as huge? Keep in mind, he is just 25 and one of the most valuable OF'ers in the game but like you also said he does not give you eye popping power. I think he can be had at a reasonable rate for the value provided. The Cardinals have the inside track on locking down a star for his prime seasons.

The Braves get Miller for 2015, just like the Cardinals get Heyward for 2015 under control at a reasonable rate, but Miller will be arbitration eligible going into 2016. So the control will be there but will the rate be reasonable going forward? I would like Miller at the back end of my favorite team's rotation but if you are looking toward a top spot I do not see Miller being that at all. He has a two pitch mix, with a mid-90's four-seam fastball and an often flat curve that he has a hard time throwing for strikes.
 

markakis8

Active member
Oct 31, 2008
12,081
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At first glance, I don't like the trade.

I don't like giving up Shelby for a one year, horribly injury prone, rental.

Hopefully this means Max Scherzer is going to sign with the Cardinals now.

Cardinals ***** the Braves. Be happy.
 

markakis8

Active member
Oct 31, 2008
12,081
2
Heyward's value is not his power, it is the culmination of his skills. I do not give much credence to the theory that a certain position must have a certain type of offensive skill set. Meaning, just because a lot of power hitters occupy the 1st base position does not mean you do not get value at that position without power numbers. Heyward's value is in run creation and prevention. You do not have to be a power hitter to be valuable in run creation. And as you stated, though understated, he is the best defensive RF'er in the game and by a wide margin. He certainly will be in for a pay raise going into his 2016 season, but what do you see as huge? Keep in mind, he is just 25 and one of the most valuable OF'ers in the game but like you also said he does not give you eye popping power. I think he can be had at a reasonable rate for the value provided. The Cardinals have the inside track on locking down a star for his prime seasons.

The Braves get Miller for 2015, just like the Cardinals get Heyward for 2015 under control at a reasonable rate, but Miller will be arbitration eligible going into 2016. So the control will be there but will the rate be reasonable going forward? I would like Miller at the back end of my favorite team's rotation but if you are looking toward a top spot I do not see Miller being that at all. He has a two pitch mix, with a mid-90's four-seam fastball and an often flat curve that he has a hard time throwing for strikes.

This guy gets it. Like I said, Cardinals win here. Especially if Heyward loves St. Louis.
 

heartyourlife

Member
Jul 29, 2010
678
0
Iowa City, IA
I was thinking about this and other bigger Cardinals trades from recent years, and there seems to be a common trend: the top "golden child" prospect that get the most hype are typically the ones that don't pan out and get moved versus the guys who get drafted in the late rounds and come through the system and make more of an impact at the major league level. Shelby Miller seems to be Colby Ramsus 2.0. Is it that they just can't live up to the hype machine or the pressure of being brought up into a winning environment? Shelby wasn't brought up in the LaRussa era so you can't blame him in that regard. He seems like a "change of scenery" type guy at this point after losing his best friend (Joe Kelly) and receiving less than full support from the team (2013 playoffs). I can see that he has an upside, but not with the Cardinals even prior to the trade.

I would like to see Heyward get extended if he shows he can fit into the system here and buys into the "Cardinals Way". Being 25 gives him the chance to figure out what he wants more: a bigger contract or being on a winning ball club that has playoff capability year after year. It's not to say he can't have both, but some seem more important than the other to some players. He definitely brings a few elements to the team that they could use (defense, speed). Maybe he just needs a change of scenery as well...
 

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