Does this scare anyone? Discussions on incredibly good psa fakes

Does this scare anyone? I've been following this on net54 and it sounds like there are incredibly good psa fakes coming out of Mexico where they are so good it's tough for even psa to tell the difference. The main tell is with the registry where there are two of the same card. Now you know why psa finally changed cases, but it sounds like they are debating if even those are good. Anyways worth a read and a discussion over here just to raise awareness on the issue.


http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=218799

Thanks for posting this. I don't really buy graded cards, but heck yeah, this should scare a lot of collectors!

Scary is a strong word, concerned maybe. Id be pissed if I got scammed like that though. But that seller probably shouldn't consign unless he has the card in his hand. I don't know that he would be able to tell it's fake but holding the product seems like a reasonable first step

PSA should have put a stop to this garbage by making a tamper-proof/fake-proof slab a LONG time ago. Shame on them for just sitting on their hands for so long with those flimsy-ass slabs. BGS has the best slabs in the business and it's not even close.

I just read through that thread. Some scary stuff going on with high end graded cards.

It almost makes you not want to buy any expensive PSA stuff. Who knows what is real or fake/tampered with.

Lets hope those who received bad product are in the loop somehow and get resolution.

Ryan

I hope this completely tanks the prices of any PSA graded cards I want to buy.

sportscardtheory said:

It almost makes you not want to buy any expensive PSA stuff. Who knows what is real or fake/tampered with.

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I'm getting to that point, what makes me nervous is I've seen a lot of cards that I was just uncomfortable with because they looked small or to me looked off due to tilt or one border being uneven, almost like they were trimmed. When raw it's easy to check for trimming, but when slabbed its very hard. Luckily I passed on most but I have a few I'm concerned with and now I have to choose to either pay psa more money to verify they are legit or just live in ignorant bliss. At this point a solid looking mid grade card seems like the place for me. Or even cool 1 and 2 dollar cards, buying high end has become too much of a pain in the butt, too many ways to get scammed.

DaClyde said:

I hope this completely tanks the prices of any PSA graded cards I want to buy.

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I think the only way that would happen is if newspapers or TV news gets a hold of this story. I have a lot of PSA graded cards in my collection. While none of my stuff would be considered high end. I still find this news very concerning. I do have a few vintage T206 and such cards that I bought for a decent amount of money.

Also does anyone consider SGC cards any safer? I have cracked a card out of a SGC holder and the holder was pretty messed up when I got done. I know Beckett's holders are tough to get into as well. Although I have not cracked one of those opened. I don't own any Beckett graded cards and really I don't have any plans of it. Nor will I send any cards to them for grading.

The only surprising thing is that it's taken this long for well-done fake slabs to come out, or a better way to reseal realistic ones. I remember the WIWAG scandal on the PSA boards, and nothing substantive was done then to improve the slabs, so it's only a matter of time. I never worried much about it, since the likelihood of my being interested in a card I'd really want to buy slabbed is small. But now I'm wanting to get a few blue chip vintage RCs and wouldn't want to buy raw unless I had a chance to really inspect it in person. But even at the Tristar show a couple weeks ago I was close to buying a card and it just looked overgraded. The slab looked OK, but I just couldn't see how the flaws I saw with my naked eyes corresponded with the grade. And the price was a significant amount below what I figured the market would be. Now the chances it was a reslab are small, but PSA doesn't make it too hard to do.

smapdi said:

The only surprising thing is that it's taken this long for well-done fake slabs to come out, or a better way to reseal realistic ones. I remember the WIWAG scandal on the PSA boards, and nothing substantive was done then to improve the slabs, so it's only a matter of time. I never worried much about it, since the likelihood of my being interested in a card I'd really want to buy slabbed is small. But now I'm wanting to get a few blue chip vintage RCs and wouldn't want to buy raw unless I had a chance to really inspect it in person. But even at the Tristar show a couple weeks ago I was close to buying a card and it just looked overgraded. The slab looked OK, but I just couldn't see how the flaws I saw with my naked eyes corresponded with the grade. And the price was a significant amount below what I figured the market would be. Now the chances it was a reslab are small, but PSA doesn't make it too hard to do.

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I must not have been collecting when the WIWAG thing went down. Where can I find some info on it or can someone tell me about it.

Also there is no mention of this over on the CU forums. The OP on the Net54 thread use to post quite a bit over there and I found some of his posts to be rather good. Seems like he had a random card thread or something in the Non Sports forum that I liked a lot.

BenG76 said:

I must not have been collecting when the WIWAG thing went down. Where can I find some info on it or can someone tell me about it.

Also there is no mention of this over on the CU forums. The OP on the Net54 thread use to post quite a bit over there and I found some of his posts to be rather good. Seems like he had a random card thread or something in the Non Sports forum that I liked a lot.

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You won't find anything like this on the PSA forum because it makes PSA look bad and they don't allow that type of thing on their own site.

sportscardtheory said:

You won't find anything like this on the PSA forum because it makes PSA look bad and they don't allow that type of thing on their own site.

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Yea, I figured as much. That place just isn't the same as when I found it several years ago when I got back into collecting. There use to be a lot more going on. Sure glad I found this forum though.

I guess in this day and age of high $$ collectibles, nothing beats a good knowledge base, but more and more I am personally feeling like collecting just isn't worth it anymore. Too many dirtbags trying to continually take advantage. Autographs, GU cards, graded cards and even basic reprints. The technology and skill set of people making customs and cards that never were is something that we might need to fear next. How soon before they start making sharp counterfeits, if they are not already. I used to feel comfortable buying a vintage card on ebay, now I am not sure I do at all. I know I definitely wouldn't buy a Goudey Ruth (my bucket list card) that was not graded for fear of someone purposefully or accidentally selling a fake.

WIWAG was (is?) a dealer called "When It Was A Game" and they were found to be a big distributor for resealed slabs, and allegedly had been resubmitting the same high-grade cards over and over to get more slabs. There was another story about them having their own slab sealing machine and a supply of actual PSA slabs, but that might be completely false. PSA tried to keep it quiet, and deleted threads and banned posters for bringing it up on their boards. But if you google "WIWAG PSA" you'll find some info, including this page:
http://www.psacard.com/Articles/ArticleView/3741/card-fraud-update

The resolution they presented was view by many to be insufficient, especially since cards sold by WIWAG were usually quickly sold and resold again, so their exact origin was impossible to trace. Supposedly, PSA had a list of certs from WIWAG's submissions that they refused to publish, but if you presented them with specific numbers they would confirm if they were on there or not. Obviously, for people with collections of possibly thousands of slabs, and the narrow window of time they allowed for inquiry, that was viewed as an onerous burden on potential victims. I was only vaguely aware of the situation, and PSA's decision to stifle discussion in their own forums kept information to the general public at a minimum, so you pretty much had to move amongst the high-end collector circles to get real info. Surely at least some of those slabs are in circulation today. Sad situation handled in the worst way possible.