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Well...this is something I've never seen before...

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mlbsalltimegreats

New member
Aug 7, 2008
6,772
3
For the most part I agree with you, here was my predictions based on the fact that I found out this guy was a cosigner and not a collector:

Clemente Prime Cuts - likely genuine
Doerr Timeless Treasures + Doerr TOTT - likely genuine, they look like they're from the same jersey which would make sense both 2005
2008 Munson jumbos (3) - fake. to me this is clear as day I mean the third Munson nameplate is from the pants...it's not even a jersey nameplate I think there's a 1% these are legit because I've been able to find 2 others from that year that are plain jumbo jerseys
2014 Mantle ITG - genuine
Ott/Gehrig - genuine
2006 Triple Threads Mantles - 50/50 - I have seen these around A LONG time if they were faked it was awhile back - I'd maybe even say 70% genuine just because I'm not sure I can see someone taking apart a card with a Josh Gibson bat piece
Babe Ruth button hole - my best guess would be fake just by looking at it but I really can't tell
Robinson jumbo - fake. I have looked at the HOF jumbos from this year numbered /10 with guys of Robinsons caliber and have not found patches it's essentially all jumbo jerseys
Thorpe - genuine
Whitey Ford (3) - genuine
Gehrig lettering patch - fake. dozens of examples of Ruth's & Gehrig's from these years that are faked in a similar way. I believe that's the original jersey with the red stitching added on.

I'd be extremely surprised if the Jackie turned out to be authentic, I think it must have been faked very close to the release of this product. That one I'm going to continue digging on because it has me intrigued but with the Munson you have a pants nameplate mixed in there from what I can see, lol!

The Problem with the Munsons are that Topps has been notorious for using pants instead of jersey and not labeling them correctly. They have been doing it for years. So being that one is pants actually makes it more believeable.

As for the Mantles those are real as its well known that a mantle oldtimers jersey was used that year and for various other sets.


Back to the Jackie, You have not seen any other but I have. I have seen atleast 2 other jumbos from the set and both had same type of patch.

Here is something that will help also, if you cannot come up with Jackie jumbo patches try looking up patches of Jackie from that year from topps and here it is

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2009-topps-sterling-jackie-robinson-457103353


Notice the patch stitching on 2 of the 5 patch windows of the 5pc. The stitching and jersey behind it match the Jumbo patch to the tee!
 
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mlbsalltimegreats

New member
Aug 7, 2008
6,772
3
I would buy the Jackie (again if he was willing to sell at market value or above) and feel comfortable owning it and believing its real.
 

mlbsalltimegreats

New member
Aug 7, 2008
6,772
3
Why has topps done this, Who knows but what we do know is that over the years of collecting I have seen legit high numbered cards with patches that should be 1/1s and then a 1/1 of that set come out of same player and its just a plain jersey. Yes head scratcher for sure but it has happened plenty of times and not just topps, other companies as well.
 

RStadlerASU22

Active member
Jan 2, 2013
8,881
11
Curious , what do you feel market should be around for the Jackie or Clemente?

And yes , I lean towards the Munson being a pant , making it more believable.

I spoke to a member through PM and we agree that the legit material to make these cards exists , so they have to be in some cards somewhere. It seems this seller has accumulated a few nice ones. I think his pricing shows that he at least feels the items are legit as well.

Ryan
 

mlbsalltimegreats

New member
Aug 7, 2008
6,772
3
Curious , what do you feel market should be around for the Jackie or Clemente?

And yes , I lean towards the Munson being a pant , making it more believable.

I spoke to a member through PM and we agree that the legit material to make these cards exists , so they have to be in some cards somewhere. It seems this seller has accumulated a few nice ones. I think his pricing shows that he at least feels the items are legit as well.

Ryan

1500 top dollar for clemente and 2500-3200 for robinson. The other robinson jumbo patch (Not this one) from same set sold for 2750 if I remember right. I was going after one. I have a image but have changed computers and may be lost. May have to bust the cob webs on it and see if its in there still, lol
 

homerun28aa

Active member
Jun 8, 2011
19,072
8
1500 top dollar for clemente and 2500-3200 for robinson. The other robinson jumbo patch (Not this one) from same set sold for 2750 if I remember right. I was going after one. I have a image but have changed computers and may be lost. May have to bust the cob webs on it and see if its in there still, lol

You think that high on the Clemente? I doubt it breaks $1K at auction I mean there's a little stitching from the lettering but that's about all that's super unique. LOT of Clemente patches out there nowadays. If we could confirm that the Jackie was genuine and there was a consensus I agree on value as well. Yes, the patches look similar to the 1/1 you showed but that's a known example those 4 and 5 piece 1/1 patch relics are known to be genuine Topps did that for a bunch of the big name HOF players like you know.

Again, if all 10 Jackie's are patches then that makes sense but only one out of 10 of them coincidentally being a magnificent example? All of the other jumbos I've been able to look up from that 2009 jumbo relics set are plain jersey pieces again minus those 3 Munson's. If you have pictures of ones from that 2009 set that are patches I would absolutely love to see them.

I think this is just a well faked patch, you're not going to get away with putting the logo in a Jackie Robinson jumbo patch card. I think the proof would be examining closely in hand, at this point it's very hard to find something online to guide you in one way or the other but the fact that even the Dice-K jumbo relics #/10 isn't a patch makes me wonder why the Jackie's would be patches. Just isn't really adding up for me.

And again the final piece of it is the explanation from the seller that Topps confirmed they made 10 Robinson nameplates.
 

mlbsalltimegreats

New member
Aug 7, 2008
6,772
3
You think that high on the Clemente? I doubt it breaks $1K at auction I mean there's a little stitching from the lettering but that's about all that's super unique. LOT of Clemente patches out there nowadays. If we could confirm that the Jackie was genuine and there was a consensus I agree on value as well. Yes, the patches look similar to the 1/1 you showed but that's a known example those 4 and 5 piece 1/1 patch relics are known to be genuine Topps did that for a bunch of the big name HOF players like you know.

Again, if all 10 Jackie's are patches then that makes sense but only one out of 10 of them coincidentally being a magnificent example? All of the other jumbos I've been able to look up from that 2009 jumbo relics set are plain jersey pieces again minus those 3 Munson's. If you have pictures of ones from that 2009 set that are patches I would absolutely love to see them.

I think this is just a well faked patch, you're not going to get away with putting the logo in a Jackie Robinson jumbo patch card. I think the proof would be examining closely in hand, at this point it's very hard to find something online to guide you in one way or the other but the fact that even the Dice-K jumbo relics #/10 isn't a patch makes me wonder why the Jackie's would be patches. Just isn't really adding up for me.

And again the final piece of it is the explanation from the seller that Topps confirmed they made 10 Robinson nameplates.

Again im confident the Jackie Is good.

As for the Clemente I agree with you and I should have clarified. On a good day its a 1000 dollar card or a little less. But I know of buyers that would pay 1000-1500. The Mirror Black 1/1 that was up with a single clemente patch sold for 1100 and coule have sold for 1200 but the second person did not hit the buy it now. This clemente imo is more unique and I feel would get 1500. I don't know if I would go that high myself as I wasn't willing to go 1200 for the mirror black patch but I do know of 2 people whom were willing to pay the 1100 to 1200 for that one and have said as much that they would fork over as much as 1500 for this one. Remember there are people on here or other boards that have bigger pockets than us, lol, and when it comes to unique cards they will pay a mint.
 

homerun28aa

Active member
Jun 8, 2011
19,072
8
Again im confident the Jackie Is good.

As for the Clemente I agree with you and I should have clarified. On a good day its a 1000 dollar card or a little less. But I know of buyers that would pay 1000-1500. The Mirror Black 1/1 that was up with a single clemente patch sold for 1100 and coule have sold for 1200 but the second person did not hit the buy it now. This clemente imo is more unique and I feel would get 1500. I don't know if I would go that high myself as I wasn't willing to go 1200 for the mirror black patch but I do know of 2 people whom were willing to pay the 1100 to 1200 for that one and have said as much that they would fork over as much as 1500 for this one. Remember there are people on here or other boards that have bigger pockets than us, lol, and when it comes to unique cards they will pay a mint.

That would be a big surprise to me, you're really confident to the point where if it was up at $3,400 you'd hit the BIN?

Agreed on that part. If it were listed with a ridiculous BIN (like $2,500 or something) with a best offer option, I think someone would pay a premium around $1500 as it's certainly one of the nicer ones I've seen of his. I just got a big one btw for my collection ;) though I guarantee you have a couple better examples of his at least. Only missing Ruth, Campanella, and Pennock from the HOFers who have patches out there, plus I'd want to pick up a Gehrig jersey patch, the pants one I have isn't too impressive. You get any new stuff lately?
 

homerun28aa

Active member
Jun 8, 2011
19,072
8
What do you guys think of this one and the market value ?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/231261630970?nav=SEARCH

Ryan

See the problem with this one is the patch is clearly much more modern than the Prime Cuts, for me at least that's a HUGE turnoff. To be honest, if the card you showed was a nice vintage, wool, grey jersey patch with the gold and black I go as high as $1,050 on it or maybe even consider hitting the BIN. The fact that it's a more modern jersey patch makes me say it would go for $600-$700.
 

RStadlerASU22

Active member
Jan 2, 2013
8,881
11
See the problem with this one is the patch is clearly much more modern than the Prime Cuts, for me at least that's a HUGE turnoff. To be honest, if the card you showed was a nice vintage, wool, grey jersey patch with the gold and black I go as high as $1,050 on it or maybe even consider hitting the BIN. The fact that it's a more modern jersey patch makes me say it would go for $600-$700.


I totally understand that philosophy , but with RC, you know it's not past 1972 , and wasn't a coaches or old timers type. Though a newer style , it's from his playing days.

Ryan
 

homerun28aa

Active member
Jun 8, 2011
19,072
8
I totally understand that philosophy , but with RC, you know it's not past 1972 , and wasn't a coaches or old timers type. Though a newer style , it's from his playing days.

Ryan

Yep you're absolutely right but my feeling (that definitely not everyone shares) is that the fact that it's a newer style, but still from his playing days, would detract from the collector value. There are just a LOT of Clemente's out there and this one is technically a jumbo patch you won't see it pop up on eBay often at all but I think the "big whig" HOF patch guys would pass on this one just because again there are just much better examples out there like that one that's up for $15K (lol). IF Clemente had lived that long and he had some old timers patches out there as well I would say much less for something like this I don't know of any old timers patches that go for a lot of money even the Mantle and Dimaggio old timers from what I've seen them go for they just don't reach anywhere near the good, wool prime patch examples.

But again I'm positive some would disagree with me here.
 

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