Gotta love the creativity of some buyers...

BowmanChromeAddict · Nov 29, 2012

So 2 days ago I pulled a Mike Zunino Leaf Ultimate All-American Auto /25. Listed it and got a $100 offer. Done deal. Last night I hit another one in my second case. List it on ebay and a new guy offers me $50. I counter with the $100 the the first one sold for 2 days ago and he counters at $60 and says that with Bowman Draft out all my leaf cards are now worth less. Fair point of creativity or speculation. Some here would argue that is the case, I've argued that Bowman Draft brings more buyers out of the woodwork and they'll see an auto of Zunino from Leaf and consider that a nice alternative or additional card to chase. Regardless, gotta love that the buyer thinks the arrival of Bowman Draft requires a 40% drop in prices for Leaf cards. Certainly his right to make that argument, and my right to decline.

Bill Menard · Nov 29, 2012

I did NOT make the offer, but I'd argue that he is right. Not that they are worthless, but that there is a drastic drop to be expected in the value of the Leaf stuff. I remember your original post on this issue and felt the same way then. I'm no expert on Leaf prices, but I know that chrome autos are what people want over all other brands when it comes to prospect rookie autographs.

BowmanChromeAddict said:
So 2 days ago I pulled a Mike Zunino Leaf Ultimate All-American Auto /25. Listed it and got a $100 offer. Done deal. Last night I hit another one in my second case. List it on ebay and a new guy offers me $50. I counter with the $100 the the first one sold for 2 days ago and he counters at $60 and says that with Bowman Draft out all my leaf cards are now worth less. Fair point of creativity or speculation. Some here would argue that is the case, I've argued that Bowman Draft brings more buyers out of the woodwork and they'll see an auto of Zunino from Leaf and consider that a nice alternative or additional card to chase. Regardless, gotta love that the buyer thinks the arrival of Bowman Draft requires a 40% drop in prices for Leaf cards. Certainly his right to make that argument, and my right to decline.

notjomommasclint · Nov 29, 2012

At least he was dealing in some form of reality an didnt quote the lunar cycle and production of thistle oil as his logic.

Austin · Nov 29, 2012

Why do some people consider Leaf and Panini worth less money after Bowman comes out?
In 2004, there were several unlicensed prospect products competing with Bowman, like Donruss Elite Extra Edition, SP Prospects and Fleer Prospects.

Those cards were valuable, and in SP's case, more valuable than Bowman (in part because most were numbered to /400).
But they were all unlicensed airbrushed cards just like Panini and Leaf are.

Is it because Donruss, UD and Fleer were established brands, and Panini and the new Leaf are not?

vwnut13 · Nov 29, 2012

Ask him why he is offering $60 if the card is worthless.

James52411 · Nov 29, 2012

Austin said:
Why do some people consider Leaf and Panini worthless after Bowman comes out?

Because they are worthless before Draft comes out.

Dilferules · Nov 29, 2012

Austin said:
Why do some people consider Leaf and Panini worthless after Bowman comes out?
In 2004, there were several unlicensed prospect products competing with Bowman, like Donruss Elite Extra Edition, SP Prospects and Fleer Prospects.

Those cards were valuable, and in SP's case, more valuable than Bowman (in part because most were numbered to /400).
But they were all unlicensed airbrushed cards just like Panini and Leaf are.

Is it because Donruss, UD and Fleer were established brands, and Panini and the new Leaf are not?

All of those 2004 sets actually were licensed by the league. They all use full team names and have team logos (on the back of the cards, but they're there). They were also parts of genuine major league sets with logos and veteran players - they weren't purely draft pick sets. The fact that they were all from manufacturers of major league sets also added legitimacy. Panini and Leaf currently don't make any fully licensed major league sets.

Edit - I'm not sure what on earth was up with the MLB licensing department during 2004-2006 but they were throwing a bunch of crap at the wall to see what would stick. In 2004 they let everybody make one Bowman-type set (but only that one year!), in 2005 they took away Donruss' license (and I forget what came first that year, Fleer going bankrupt or losing their license), and in 2006 they started the whole rookie card logo thing.

Richard

Bob Loblaw · Nov 29, 2012

When you buy/sell something other than the established brands, there are obstacles. Leaf - and Panini, to a lesser extent -- are niche products within a niche (prospecting) of the baseball card market.

ThoseBackPages · Nov 29, 2012

seems some people are confusing "worth less" and "worthless"

while it would appear that once an MLB product is released, those that arent would be "worth less", not "worthless"

Pine Tar · Nov 29, 2012

Bob Loblaw said:
When you buy/sell something other than the established brands, there are obstacles. Leaf - and Panini, to a lesser extent -- are niche products within a niche (prospecting) of the baseball card market.

Thus only appealing to the niche buyer?

VandyDan · Nov 29, 2012

Look at the difference in price for Bogaerts in leaf vs bowman. 3.5:1 last I checked.

All The Hype · Nov 29, 2012

I like how buyers try to tell you your stuff is worthless as if it's going to convince you to accept their lowball offer.

I've had the same happen a number of times, although usually because they say the player is no good and no one wants his cards. If he's no good and no one wants his cards, then why are you offering me money for them?

RiceLynnEvans75 · Nov 29, 2012

All The Hype said:
If he's no good and no one wants his cards, then why are you offering me money for them?

Exactly. I wonder if they realize the idiocy of their explanation with their offers, as if they are doing you some sort of a favor.

BowmanChromeAddict · Nov 29, 2012

VandyDan said:
Look at the difference in price for Bogaerts in leaf vs bowman. 3.5:1 last I checked.

Fair enough, but do you know what a Bowman Chrome Orange Refractor Auto of Zunino will sell for? Easily over $400. I'm only trying to get the $100 that I was able to get for the same card 2 days ago.

smapdi · Nov 29, 2012

"worth less" =/= "worthless"

pootshwan · Nov 30, 2012

smapdi said:
"worth less" =/= "worthless"

Einstein

Leaf · Dec 1, 2012

VandyDan said:
Look at the difference in price for Bogaerts in leaf vs bowman. 3.5:1 last I checked.

Which is actually a positive since it is 5x easier to pull mine and I put 8-10 autos per box vs their 1-2.. If I put 1-2, mine would sell for much more (albeit less than chrome still for obvious reasons)..

Mudcatsfan · Dec 1, 2012

If Leaf sticks around and builds brand identity, the tide can change.

If a player becomes highly collected beyond prospectors, the leaf cards will go crazy.

Its VERY common practice across all collectibles that once a rabid fanbase has collected all they can of the 'standard' or 'brand name' items, they move to the niche products, or the once ignored versions, etc.

Those ones end up 10x the value of the once 'flag ship' product.

hofmichael · Dec 1, 2012

Mudcatsfan said:
If Leaf sticks around and builds brand identity, the tide can change.

If a player becomes highly collected beyond prospectors, the leaf cards will go crazy.

Its VERY common practice across all collectibles that once a rabid fanbase has collected all they can of the 'standard' or 'brand name' items, they move to the niche products, or the once ignored versions, etc.

Those ones end up 10x the value of the once 'flag ship' product.

The past says otherwise. I won't refer to then as unlicensed but instead call them basically minor league issues. Minor league issues have never exploded before unless the player had no other cards issued. Please note that this isn't a Leaf/unlicensed based statement. I don't care who produced the card it just doesn't happen.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

RobinFriday · Dec 1, 2012

Bowman Chrome is king..first rule of prospect collecting..but Leafs a great looking card

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