Worst Players with MLB Careers Greater than 15 Years

Austin said:

Mickey Vernon won 2 batting titles, had 2,500 hits and 1,300 rbi, was a 7-time all-star and led first basemen in fielding percentage 4 times.
Of those 20 seasons, only 11 were over 140 games played and he still had 2,500 hits despite all the injuries.
Ted Williams called him a Hall of Famer.
Vernon is a perfect example of why WAR is totally flawed and not an accurate tool for measuring greatness.

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WAR definitely punishes light hitting 1B and OF. Vernon only slugged .428 when a contemporary like Musial and Klu were in the .500s and .600s.

They count. I think there used to be a much bigger emphasis on experience and you could hang on even if you just had replacement level talent.

My high school (I graduated in 1991) history teacher, Jack Heimbaucher, was also our school's baseball coach. He was excellent at both jobs. I loved his class because he constantly talked about baseball, with one of his favorite topics being his amazement at how Rafael Belliard managed to find a spot on the Pirates roster year after year.

Over 20 years later, I can still clearly recall Mr. Heimbaucher shaking his head in disgust, repeatedly and disbelievingly saying the name "Rafael Belliard!"

I just checked baseball-reference, and Belliard played in the majors in parts of 17 seasons, and his career batting WAR is 0.1.

OP, thanks for bringing back some great memories of high school, and for reminding me that Jack Heimbaucher knew his baseball as well as his US History!

tpeichel said:

WAR definitely punishes light hitting 1B and OF.

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It certainly does, and that's one reason why it's flawed.
Freaking Bobby Grich has a higher career WAR than Tony Gwynn!

I don't even understand WAR really.

Blanco and Molina were the first 2 I thought of, but maybe because I just saw the BBTN thing on pitch framing.

Also Jeff Suppan.

hive17 said:

Blanco and Molina were the first 2 I thought of, but maybe because I just saw the BBTN thing on pitch framing.

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Henry Blanco
16 Seasons
Career WAR -0.0
OPS+ = 67
Career Earnings $16.8

MansGame said:

I don't even understand WAR really.

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[h=2]How to Use WAR[/h] The idea behind the WAR framework is that we want to know how much better a player is than what a team would typically have to replace that player (AAA or AAAA player). We start by comparing the player to average in a variety of venues and then compare our theoretical replacement player to the average player and add the two results together.

There is no one way to determine WAR. There are hundreds of steps to make this calculation, and dozens of places where reasonable people can disagree on the best way to implement a particular part of the framework. We have taken the utmost care and study at each step in the process, and believe all of our choices are well reasoned and defensible. But WAR is necessarily an approximation and will never be as precise or accurate as one would like.

We present the WAR values with decimal places because this relates the WAR value back to the runs contributed (as one win is about ten runs), but you should not take any full season difference between two players of less than one to two wins to be definitive (especially when the defensive metrics are included).

I gotta be reading John Flaherty's WAR incorrectly, right?

14 years with a 1.6

He sucked as a Yankee and had a bat speed similar to a fly swinging a club, but is that war even possible?

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For Stairs, for every 650 PAs, equivalent to a full season, he has a WAR of 2.0. For traditional stats, per 162 games he hit .262/.356/.477 with 23 homers and 77 RBI. Of course, of those 19 years, he only actually got into about 2/3 the games (probably a significant number as pinch-hitter), and was a full-time player for really 4 or 5 of those years. When he did play, he did not embarrass himself.

Is Stairs tainted by PEDs? He was a teammate of McGwire's in Oakland. Does one hit 38 homers and never have more than 27 before or after? Does anyone give Matt Stairs any thought?

If you count "seasons" by making an appearance in the league during a calendar year, I suspect there's a bunch of relievers who have like 50 IP and lasted forever with minimal statistical value, just eating up innings. Like Jesse Orosco.

BBCgalaxee said:

I gotta be reading John Flaherty's WAR incorrectly, right?

14 years with a 1.6

He sucked as a Yankee and had a bat speed similar to a fly swinging a club, but is that war even possible?

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

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That is possible if you suck bad enough, but they keep giving you a contract.

smapdi said:

For Stairs, for every 650 PAs, equivalent to a full season, he has a WAR of 2.0. For traditional stats, per 162 games he hit .262/.356/.477 with 23 homers and 77 RBI. Of course, of those 19 years, he only actually got into about 2/3 the games (probably a significant number as pinch-hitter), and was a full-time player for really 4 or 5 of those years. When he did play, he did not embarrass himself.

Is Stairs tainted by PEDs? He was a teammate of McGwire's in Oakland. Does one hit 38 homers and never have more than 27 before or after? Does anyone give Matt Stairs any thought?

If you count "seasons" by making an appearance in the league during a calendar year, I suspect there's a bunch of relievers who have like 50 IP and lasted forever with minimal statistical value, just eating up innings. Like Jesse Orosco.

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I agree that Stairs probably doesn't deserve to make the list. He had some very good years, though he did parlay those into a lot of seasons where he was average or worse. His career OPS+ is 107. The league average player has an OPS+ of 100, so maybe the list should get filtered so players with an above average OPS+ are not counted.

Lenny Harris
18 Seasons
Career War = 2.0
OPS+ = 80
Slash Line .269/.318/.349
Career Earnings = $11.2 million

tpeichel said:

Lenny Harris
18 Seasons
Career War = 2.0
OPS+ = 80
Slash Line .269/.318/.349
Career Earnings = $11.2 million

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The greatest pinch hitter of all-time?

Francouer could get there if he comes back... Yuniesky Betancourt is heading that way... Jeff Mathis too

The first player I thought of was Charlie O'Brien. He was Maddux's personal catcher for a while because Maddux couldn't get on the same page with Javy Lopez.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_O'Brien

Brewer Andy said:

The greatest pinch hitter of all-time?

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Not sure about that. He had the most chances.

Hit .263 as a pinch hitter, not much different than his regular average. Somehow he got a reputation as a good pinch hitter, and made a great career out of it.

heavy_hitter said:

The first player I thought of was Charlie O'Brien. He was Maddux's personal catcher for a while because Maddux couldn't get on the same page with Javy Lopez.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_O'Brien

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Definite qualifier

Charlie O'Brien
15 Seasons
Career War = 9.7
OPS+ = 76
Slash Line .221/.303/.353

There was some sarcasm there, but his name always reminds me that he held the record for most career pinch hits. Not sure if he still does but that statement alone is not indicative of anything beyond, as you said, he got a lot of chances.


As a Milwaukee fan, the first player I thought of was Jim Gantner. May have been a decent fielder but even in an era when most 2nd basemen were light hitters you had to wonder why he lasted as long as he did beyond being well loved in the community and clubhouse