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mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
6,188
4,099
Interesting when I went to see how the votes stacked up, this caught my eye. Walker and Jeter match up very closely on a lot of stat lines. The obvious is the AB and H differences, but think of what Walker might have done with those extra 4000 at bats! It really makes you think that Walker was not that bad of a choice for HOF as many regular fans thought.

Screen Shot 2020-01-21 at 5.49.47 PM.png
 

banjar

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2015
2,540
883
Lafayette, Colorado
That is interesting. I would not have thought those two guys compare in any way.

I'm on the fence about Walker. Being a Colorado guy I do remember how damn good he was. But I also know how Coors field factored in. I could go through his year by year splits, but what really shows this is OPS versus OPS+.

His career OPS is .965, which is good for 15th all time. 15th!!! The guys ahead of him are Ruth, Williams, Gehrig, Bonds, Foxx, Greenberg, Hornsby, Trout, Ramirez, McGwire, Mantle, DiMaggio, Musial, Thomas. But in terms of OPS+, he's at 141 for his career, good for 68th all time. Still pretty damn good, but with Kevin Mitchell and Lance Berkman ahead of you, that takes a little shine off the HOF argument.

When all is said and done, I'm OK with him getting in. He really benefited from Coors Field, and also couldn't stay healthy (one season with 150 games played, only three others with 140), but at his peak he was probably the best player in baseball and that counts. The guy was really, really, talented.


Interesting when I went to see how the votes stacked up, this caught my eye. Walker and Jeter match up very closely on a lot of stat lines. The obvious is the AB and H differences, but think of what Walker might have done with those extra 4000 at bats! It really makes you think that Walker was not that bad of a choice for HOF as many regular fans thought.

View attachment 96384
 

smapdi

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
4,397
221
I really didn't see Walker's election coming. I thought he'd come close but fall short. I was even looking at PSA 10 RCs on ebay yesterday, thinking I should go ahead and buy one just because. Oops. Good for him.
 

Letch77

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2018
1,608
353
Midwest
Cuz if Griffey, or Seaver, or Ryan didn’t get 100% then why should Jeter...

Not my view, but probably the argument

Right?? Who in their right mind would not have voted for Nolan freakin' Ryan to be in the HOF???
 

smapdi

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
4,397
221
I really didn't see Walker's election coming. I thought he'd come close but fall short. I was even looking at PSA 10 RCs on ebay yesterday, thinking I should go ahead and buy one just because. Oops. Good for him.

Just looking at the voting totals now, I'm amazed at the names that got dropped on their first ballot. Four guys (FOUR!) with 400+ homers are one-and-done. Konerko 439, Giambi 440, Soriano 412, and Dunn 462. That's stunning to me. I looked back a decade and no other 400-Clubber has been dropped from the ballot except for McGwire, Palmeiro, and Juan Gonzalez, I assume for obvious reasons, but they weren't on their first ballots. I thought Konerko might be one of those guys who starts at 15% or so and builds. Guess I've been reading the BO boards too much. I would have bet at least two would get 5%, certainly not zero.

I'm most disappointed for Cliff Lee. I always liked him, especially on the Phillies, and all he did was win. 143-91, 3.52 ERA (ok a little high but he was right in the middle of the power era) but great WHIPs, won one Cy Young, and in the prime of his career he was good for 6+ WAR a year. He took a little longer than most HOFers to get good in the majors, then couldn't stay healthy enough to get 32-33 starts each year, and had to hang it up a couple years too early. Rather than finishing in Mike Mussina territory, he finished more in Roy Oswalt territory, and that's too bad.

Other names jump out along with mental pictures of their cards. Rafael Furcal, one of the early stars of 1999 Bowman Chrome, which was an incredible product. Josh Beckett, I remember flipping his Ultimate Victory RC, buying it at a show for $1 and selling it on this new-fangled thing called ebay for $15. Alfonso Soriano with his pursuit of 40/40 was a big hobby name for a little while, and I remember his Ultimate Victory RC and the autograph from 1999 Topps Traded box sets were smooooking hot. Carlos Pena, whose autograph was in the 99 Traded box set I did buy, was a decent slugger for a while. Eric Chavez was a pretty good pull from 1997 Bowman Chrome for a while. Brian Roberts I didn't even know had been retired for so long. I have a 1/1 of him that I've actually owned twice.
 
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WizardofOz1982

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2017
1,736
1,498
Oklahoma
I'm most disappointed for Cliff Lee. I always liked him, especially on the Phillies, and all he did was win. 143-91, 3.52 ERA (ok a little high but he was right in the middle of the power era) but great WHIPs, won one Cy Young, and in the prime of his career he was good for 6+ WAR a year. He took a little longer than most HOFers to get good in the majors, then couldn't stay healthy enough to get 32-33 starts each year, and had to hang it up a couple years too early. Rather than finishing in Mike Mussina territory, he finished more in Roy Oswalt territory, and that's too bad.

Lee is definitely one of those Hall of Fame Talent but not a Hall of Fame career guys. He just put it all together too late and then started getting hurt.
 

bstanwood

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2016
3,666
332
Mystic, CT
Right?? Who in their right mind would not have voted for Nolan freakin' Ryan to be in the HOF???

You know there were people that said he had too many losses, too many walks...my favorite, played too long just to accumulate numbers.
The HOF election process needs to be revamped, I don't have a good solution but it needs to be reworked rate
 
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mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
6,188
4,099
Like most things that rely on a vote, it is a flawed process. I also was a little surprised that so many solid players with surprising stats were nearly completely snubbed, although Jeter was the clear member in this weak class. The big stats don't mean what they used to and then there is that PED scandal, especially the HR. Sheffield, Ramirez, Palmiero, Sosa, McGwire, Bonds all with 500+ HRs and not in and McGriff oh so close, but 7 short. It looks like Bonds may eventually get the nod and this may open the door for most of the others too.

I figured Dunn had to have close to the most HRs career and not have even a remote shot at the HOF. Looks like Carlos Delgado may take that prize at 473.
 

Letch77

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2018
1,608
353
Midwest
Still wondering who was “that guy” who didn’t vote for Jeter?

I heard that the guy didn't vote for Jeter because he knew Jeter would get enough votes to get in anyhow. To me, that's poor reasoning and that guy should be excluded from HOF voting in the future. Don't worry about how others vote...it's supposed to be how YOU see their accomplishments.
 

clarkzac

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2010
9,825
1,080
I heard that the guy didn't vote for Jeter because he knew Jeter would get enough votes to get in anyhow. To me, that's poor reasoning and that guy should be excluded from HOF voting in the future. Don't worry about how others vote...it's supposed to be how YOU see their accomplishments.

If he voted for 10 guys though, I can see his reasoning. Jeter didn't need his vote to get elected, and if he thought there were 10 other guys that warranted his vote, I don't see a problem.
 

nosterbor

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2010
6,099
431
Sunny Florida
If he voted for 10 guys though, I can see his reasoning. Jeter didn't need his vote to get elected, and if he thought there were 10 other guys that warranted his vote, I don't see a problem.

So if all the voters felt that way Jeter would have had 0.0% of the vote and been KICKED off the ballet. That would have been very funny. That is a piss poor reason not to vote for him. That voter should be kicked to the curb.
 

Letch77

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2018
1,608
353
Midwest
I think that if a player is 1 vote shy of being unanimously inducted and the 1 voter doesn't have a solid reason as to why they don't feel the player belongs in the HOF, then yes, they should be excused from future voting. Each voter is tasked with voting for whom they believe belongs in the HOF so abstaining from voting for a player is akin to saying that they don't believe he should be inducted. This guy's reasoning for not voting Jeter could be seen as "stuffing the ballot box" for other players.
 

Randy Shields

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2008
2,224
441
OH-IO
I've not read or heard anything written or reported anywhere that the guy who didn't vote for Jeter didn't because he knew he'd get in anyhow. In fact, no one has leaked his name and he has not responded in any way, shape or form. I think this thinking falls into the speculation and rumor mill. It would be an awfully asinine way and in my opinion a derelict of duty to use this rationale to go about casting a vote as prestigious as this one. Maybe he'll reveal himself someday and offer up his reasoning but seeing how the 3 who didn't vote for Griffey Jr never have he may never care to either.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Freedom Card Board mobile app
 

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