Hall of Fame Criteria

Enfuego79 · Jun 24, 2013

Ok folks, as promised, here it is:

If you had the authority to revise the criteria for induction into the Hall of Fame, what would be some mandatory requirements and discriminators that will determine induction into the HoF?? Ready??? Go!!!

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Sly · Jun 24, 2013

The only thing I'd change? Hall of Fame is voted on by living HOFer's, not writers. Let the people that ARE HOFer's determine if other players are HOFer's.

vwnut13 · Jun 24, 2013

Sly said:
The only thing I'd change? Hall of Fame is voted on by living HOFer's, not writers. Let the people that ARE HOFer's determine if other players are HOFer's.

That would probably be worse than having writers vote.

uniquebaseballcards · Jun 24, 2013

Sly said:
The only thing I'd change? Hall of Fame is voted on by living HOFer's, not writers. Let the people that ARE HOFer's determine if other players are HOFer's.

A combination would be interesting...

matfanofold · Jun 24, 2013

I like the HOF exactly as it is with seemingly equal prefrence to statistics, longevity, and popularity. Players worth remembering, enschrining.

Super Mario · Jun 24, 2013

In 2006, before the season started, I was able to ask Yadier Molina a question.

I asked him why he changed his jersey number from 41 to 4.

He told me because when his number is retired, he wants it up there right besides Alberts.

Not only will his number be retired by the Cardinals, but Yadi WILL make the Hall of Fame. I can only imagine how respected he is by the voters. I would be shocked if he doesn't make it.

sheetskout · Jun 24, 2013

I have a personal set of criteria which I follow. Some of the variables are objective (statistically-based) and some are very subjective. An example would be that I feel a HOF player needs to be the preeminent player at his position or pitcher for a somewhat "significant" period of time. Albert Belle passes this test for me as there was a 1-2 year period where it could easily have been argued that he was the best hitter in MLB. Blended with a longevity variable (also subjective) and Belle doesn't pass the entry test for me.

Todd Helton passes both of these checks for me though. And of all the bubble-type players out there he is the toughest for me. Statistically, he deserves it. And I'm pretty sure that around 2000-2001 he may have been the most feared hitter in baseball. The park obviously knocks him down a peg though.

I guess the bottom line is that there are a LOT of subjective areas when judging a player for entry and it's difficult for me to hand that responsibility to someone to make that decision. I'm also not ready to subscribe to a lot of the theories about sportswriters that some people are and still feel that their passion for the game and the stories involved are what drive them forward.

Mighty Bombjack · Jun 24, 2013

sheetskout said:
I have a personal set of criteria which I follow. Some of the variables are objective (statistically-based) and some are very subjective. An example would be that I feel a HOF player needs to be the preeminent player at his position or pitcher for a somewhat "significant" period of time. Albert Belle passes this test for me as there was a 1-2 year period where it could easily have been argued that he was the best hitter in MLB. Blended with a longevity variable (also subjective) and Belle doesn't pass the entry test for me.

Todd Helton passes both of these checks for me though. And of all the bubble-type players out there he is the toughest for me. Statistically, he deserves it. And I'm pretty sure that around 2000-2001 he may have been the most feared hitter in baseball. The park obviously knocks him down a peg though.

I guess the bottom line is that there are a LOT of subjective areas when judging a player for entry and it's difficult for me to hand that responsibility to someone to make that decision. I'm also not ready to subscribe to a lot of the theories about sportswriters that some people are and still feel that their passion for the game and the stories involved are what drive them forward.

I agree with all of what you've written (and Helton is my favorite player, so it's hard for me to make an objective judgement there).

I think it's important to have the voting pool be large so that a vocal group of people have a harder time swaying the outcome. The Veteran's Committee has been notorious for letting a small group of people decide to induct their buddies (looking in your direction, Frankie Frisch!). Subjectivity will and should always play a huge role in this, and the bigger the pool the better the deciding results IMO.

Enfuego79 · Jun 24, 2013

So, just throwing this out to you all, if a player was involved at any time during his career with PEDs, or any involvement with the law for any reason should this be an automatic denial of induction? Your thoughts?

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sheetskout · Jun 24, 2013

Enfuego79 said:
So, just throwing this out to you all, if a player was involved at any time during his career with PEDs, or any involvement with the law for any reason should this be an automatic denial of induction? Your thoughts?

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Who's laws and at what age? American Laws? Dominican Laws? Canadian Laws?

(Have you seen how some of these Latin-american signees grow up?)

Just throwing that out there too.....

Enfuego79 · Jun 24, 2013

sheetskout said:
Who's laws and at what age? American Laws? Dominican Laws? Canadian Laws?

(Have you seen how some of these Latin-american signees grow up?)

Just throwing that out there too.....

Well, as a Latino myself, I can only speak from experience and we do tend to get in trouble! Lol

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BBCgalaxee · Jun 24, 2013

If u don't get voted in after 5 yrs of eligibility, youre out of consideration.

RogerMarisCollector61 · Jun 24, 2013

I love this thread because I don't like the hall of fame the way it is.

The way I see it the hall of fame should put more of an emphasis on a player's best 10 year period as opposed to guys who hung around long enough to hit useless milestones like 3000 hits, 250 wins, 500 home runs. Also, you shouldn't be in the hall if you weren't at least one of the best 3 players at your position during your generation. This will keep the hall from electing too many power hitting first basemen and corner outfielders (Tony Perez, Jim Rice, Dave Winfield, etc) as opposed to unreplaceable players like Ron Santo and hopefully Scott Rolen who go under the radar as third basemen.

If you disagree with me about scott rolen then tell me the top 3 third baseman of rolen's generation and don't come up with a list like this:
1. Chipper
2. Rolen
3. Beltre

It's impossible.

elmalo · Jun 24, 2013

Super Mario said:
In 2006, before the season started, I was able to ask Yadier Molina a question.

I asked him why he changed his jersey number from 41 to 4.

He told me because when his number is retired, he wants it up there right besides Alberts.

Not only will his number be retired by the Cardinals, but Yadi WILL make the Hall of Fame. I can only imagine how respected he is by the voters. I would be shocked if he doesn't make it.

As long as he doesnt pee dirty or have his name attached to any ped clinics he should be alright.

elmalo · Jun 24, 2013

RyanHowardCollector6 said:
I love this thread because I don't like the hall of fame the way it is.

The way I see it the hall of fame should put more of an emphasis on a player's best 10 year period as opposed to guys who hung around long enough to hit useless milestones like 3000 hits, 250 wins, 500 home runs. Also, you shouldn't be in the hall if you weren't at least one of the best 3 players at your position during your generation. This will keep the hall from electing too many power hitting first basemen and corner outfielders (Tony Perez, Jim Rice, Dave Winfield, etc) as opposed to unreplaceable players like Ron Santo and hopefully Scott Rolen who go under the radar as third basemen.

If you disagree with me about scott rolen then tell me the top 3 third baseman of rolen's generation and don't come up with a list like this:
1. Chipper
2. Rolen
3. Beltre

It's impossible.

I dont think it should have anything to do with posistion. If there are 10 first basemen in a generation with hall of fame numbers and only 1 3rd baseman than those 11 should get in, regardless of position.

Enfuego79 · Jun 24, 2013

elmalo said:
I dont think it should have anything to do with posistion. If there are 10 first basemen in a generation with hall of fame numbers and only 1 3rd baseman than those 11 should get in, regardless of position.

Since you mentioned "numbers" if you had a say so, what is the "standard" in your eyes for induction?

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RogerMarisCollector61 · Jun 24, 2013

elmalo said:
I dont think it should have anything to do with posistion. If there are 10 first basemen in a generation with hall of fame numbers and only 1 3rd baseman than those 11 should get in, regardless of position.

Why? If there are 10 first basemen in the baseball hitting 40 home runs every year, then all ten are easily replaceable. How can you be elite if you are not as good as 9 other players at the SAME position? Scott Rolen may not have hall of fame "numbers" in terms of counting stats but you can't replace his production. The average first baseman is an above average hitter every year, therefore you must be WAY better than that to be HOF worthy. The average 2nd baseman is below average at hitting, so if Robinson Cano gets a 130 OPS+ it means WAY more than a 130 first baseman.

elmalo · Jun 24, 2013

RyanHowardCollector6 said:
Why? If there are 10 first basemen in the baseball hitting 40 home runs every year, then all ten are easily replaceable. How can you be elite if you are not as good as 9 other players at the SAME position? Scott Rolen may not have hall of fame "numbers" in terms of counting stats but you can't replace his production. The average first baseman is an above average hitter every year, therefore you must be WAY better than that to be HOF worthy. The average 2nd baseman is below average at hitting, so if Robinson Cano gets a 130 OPS+ it means WAY more than a 130 first baseman.

You can replace his production, you can replace it at anther position.

thatsawinner · Jun 24, 2013

RyanHowardCollector6 said:
I love this thread because I don't like the hall of fame the way it is.

The way I see it the hall of fame should put more of an emphasis on a player's best 10 year period as opposed to guys who hung around long enough to hit useless milestones like 3000 hits, 250 wins, 500 home runs. Also, you shouldn't be in the hall if you weren't at least one of the best 3 players at your position during your generation. This will keep the hall from electing too many power hitting first basemen and corner outfielders (Tony Perez, Jim Rice, Dave Winfield, etc) as opposed to unreplaceable players like Ron Santo and hopefully Scott Rolen who go under the radar as third basemen.

If you disagree with me about scott rolen then tell me the top 3 third baseman of rolen's generation and don't come up with a list like this:
1. Chipper
2. Rolen
3. Beltre

It's impossible.

I completely agree on Rolen!!! He should get in the hall. Great with the bat, but perhaps the greatest defensive third baseman ever. I never saw Brooks Robinson play, so Rolen is by far the best defensive third baseman I've seen. Amazing how good he was with a glove. If defense is half of being a baseball great, which it should be, he should get in. Ozzie Smith got in for his defense and so should Rolen.

Yadier Molina could be headed down the same path, if defense counts, he's on track, but if its just mainly offense, he needs a lot more 2013 seasons.

Enfuego79 · Jun 24, 2013

thatsawinner said:
I completely agree on Rolen!!! He should get in the hall. Great with the bat, but perhaps the greatest defensive third baseman ever. I never saw Brooks Robinson play, so Rolen is by far the best defensive third baseman I've seen. Amazing how good he was with a glove. If defense is half of being a baseball great, which it should be, he should get in. Ozzie Smith got in for his defense and so should Rolen.

Yadier Molina could be headed down the same path, if defense counts, he's on track, but if its just mainly offense, he needs a lot more 2013 seasons.

What is preventing him from getting in?

Looking for Alex Rodriguez Cards, let me know!

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