Quick Rant !!!

csmtampa · Jan 7, 2013

Pine Tar said:
It looks like it to me that the first photo you have for sale is ok this one is on eBay right now and has been authenticated by James Spence himself
Mickey Mantle Duke Snyder Autographed 8x10 B w Photo Full JSA LOA | eBay

And this is yours that got pulled. I no expert but the Mantles look really similar to me.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

the Mantle/Williams the guy is trying to sell is a COMMON KNOWN FORGERY in the autograph world.....

the Mantle is horrrrrrriiiibbbbblllllleeeeee

csmtampa · Jan 7, 2013

Here's an easy way for you to find out those are fakes:

1. List them on ebay
2. Do a PSA/DNA quick opinion
3. When they get taken down you'll know why

But, if they already got taken down by ebay then you already know why

Pine Tar · Jan 7, 2013

csmtampa said:
Here's an easy way for you to find out those are fakes:

1. List them on ebay
2. Do a PSA/DNA quick opinion
3. When they get taken down you'll know why

But, if they already got taken down by ebay then you already know why

This seller has his with James Spence authenticated on them those are the ones I compared them to. So James Spence made a mistake then with this sellers auto's? And they are fake?
uncle-chang | eBay

csmtampa · Jan 7, 2013

Pine Tar said:
This seller has his with James Spence authenticated on them those are the ones I compared them to. So James Spence made a mistake then with this sellers auto's? And they are fake?
uncle-chang | eBay

No man I said the guy here (OP) Mantle/Williams is fake, not the one you posted with Mantle/Snider

Bill Menard · Jan 7, 2013

I'm not sure if they are fakes or not, but the info provided here along with info at Autographs Live is enough for me to pull down the remaining Ted Williams auto's EXCEPT the two framed autos. I definitely want more information, if availabel, on Raymond W. Hines, who authenticated them.

The items I have listed ALL came from one person. I'm not stupid enough to say that they are all real because of this, but I think what probably happened is this person is/was a long time collector and may have, unfortunately, got some bad autos on his bigger name players. All the other redsox stuff I have no reason to doubt. Many are local MA authentications from people with no reason to doubt (Shaughnessy, etc.) AND I have no reason to believe someone is forging Todd Benzinger autographs!

Again, thanks for the input so far. Knowledge is power!

I appreciate the input folks have given.

mr148927 · Jan 7, 2013

Thanks Pine Tar. Appreciate your help..

csmtampa, I personally think your an ass.. The Mantles Pine Tar posted look quite similar, so I guess yoru sayign J SPence is wrong too huh ?

Bill Menard · Jan 7, 2013

csmtampa said:
No man I said the guy here (OP) Mantle/Williams is fake, not the one you posted with Mantle/Snider

Like I said, I'm no expert, but seeing the pictures I've now seen, I'd say the angle of the tail of the letter "y" in Mickey is off compared to that of the two pictures Pine Tar posted (they are both angled and in the one I listed, it is straight up) and the flow on the "k" in Mickey also looks like a sharp bend at the top of the "K", which is different from the other two (smooth arch, rathan than sharp angle). Plus the Kokomo Sticker has been suggested to be a cover for another forgery group in Florida on Autographs Live website.

I also see on that website that B&J Collectibles is associated with fraudulent autos, so I pulled that one too. I took the Mantle/Dimaggio down for the time being along with the other unframed Teds to be sfe.

csmtampa · Jan 7, 2013

mr148927 said:
Thanks Pine Tar. Appreciate your help..

csmtampa, I personally think your an ass.. The Mantles Pine Tar posted look quite similar, so I guess yoru sayign J SPence is wrong too huh ?

The one you are trying to sell and the ones Pinetar linked are NOTHING ALIKE. Forgeries are supposed to look somewhat similar, that's what the forgers try to do. They try to get it as close as they can. But there's things they cant do. Like get certain strokes that a player does, slants a player does, and other quirks that a player does in his autograph.

Who said Spence was wrong? I never said that. I use Spence EVERY MONTH to authenticate autographs and then I flip them.

csmtampa · Jan 7, 2013

Bill Menard said:
Like I said, I'm no expert, but seeing the pictures I've now seen, I'd say the angle of the tail of the letter "y" in Mickey is off compared to that of the two pictures Pine Tar posted (they are both angled and in the one I listed, it is straight up) and the flow on the "k" in Mickey also looks like a sharp bend at the top of the "K", which is different from the other two (smooth arch, rathan than sharp angle). Plus the Kokomo Sticker has been suggested to be a cover for another forgery group in Florida on Autographs Live website.

I also see on that website that B&J Collectibles is associated with fraudulent autos, so I pulled that one too. I took the Mantle/Dimaggio down for the time being along with the other unframed Teds to be sfe.

Looks like Bill read the information and then was able to see the differences. At first glance to a novice collector they might not see it, but after inspection you can see the tell tale signs.

Sjrmn91 · Jan 7, 2013

mr148927 said:
I have a friend, as most of you know trying to sell some items on ebay for my charity.... What really pisses me off, is people on ebay, and their bullXXXX opinions... Just becasue they think it is not real , they have to complain to ebay, that it should be pulled from auction. Well if your such an expert go work for PSA/DNA. Just really pisses me off , that we are trying to sell them, and raise money for a charity, and people have nothing better to do than complain about things they have no idea about. You dont think it is real then do not bid, but why do you have to keep playing these friggin games with our auctions. ( not saying anyone here is responsible) Get a life.... UNFU#&#*#REAL....
FYI.....
For those of you saying get them authenticated, as a charity we cannot afford the roughly $1000 to do this.. Which in the end I guess hurts us, but we are willing to stand behind them, and if someone buys them, and they come back fake, we would refund purchase price... I am sure I will get some backlash from this post, but oh well.. Just the way I feel...

It really seems like you're saying that, because you're selling these items for a charity, no one should question their authenticity. It doesn't matter if you're selling the items for your own personal gain or for the gain of others; if the items that you are selling look questionable to someone, they have every right to report those items to eBay. And if eBay receives enough flags from members and their people deem the items as questionable, they are going to be taken down, simple as that. You're trying to sell highly sought after, expensive autographs without them being authenticated. This is just begging for issues, especially after the auction ends. What happens when the money is given to said charity, then a buyer comes back for you for a fake autograph? You're still responsible. Props to you for doing all of this for charity, but if you want to help the charity as much as possible and save yourself a lot of frustration and potentially monetary loss, you should do this the right way.

mr148927 · Jan 7, 2013

Sjrmn91, I run said charity, I would basically just put money aside, wait for them to authneticate, and if comes back fake refund money.... I went with Bill, because I am not totally familiar with autos. If I had the money to authenticate I would but we do not...

csmtampa · Jan 7, 2013

mr148927 said:
Sjrmn91, I run said charity, I would basically just put money aside, wait for them to authneticate, and if comes back fake refund money.... I went with Bill, because I am not totally familiar with autos. If I had the money to authenticate I would but we do not...

What kind of charity is it? Maybe I can donate some authentic autographs to help you guys out.

Pine Tar · Jan 7, 2013

mr148927 said:
Sjrmn91, I run said charity, I would basically just put money aside, wait for them to authneticate, and if comes back fake refund money.... I went with Bill, because I am not totally familiar with autos. If I had the money to authenticate I would but we do not...

csmtampa said:
What kind of charity is it? Maybe I can donate some authentic autographs to help you guys out.

From what I read it is like 40 and up per auto on photos is it not?
JSA :: Autograph Authentication Services

Letter of Authenticity (LOA) or Letter of Rejection (LOO)
1 signature	Minimum $35 (Type signer in search box above)
2-5 signatures - multiple signatures on ONE item	Minimum $40 (Type signer/theme in search box above)
6-26 signatures - multiple signatures on ONE item	Minimum $100 (Type signer/theme in search box above)
27+ signatures - multiple signatures on ONE item	Minimum $150 (Type signer/theme in search box above)
Other Authentication Options
Basic Certification Program	Fees range from $20 - $30
Stamp of Approval Program	$4.00 per item; perceived value not to exceed $20 (JSA discretion) / Must be a flat item (No baseballs/bats etc.) / under 8"x10" in size to qualify for this program

Sjrmn91 · Jan 7, 2013

mr148927 said:
Sjrmn91, I run said charity, I would basically just put money aside, wait for them to authneticate, and if comes back fake refund money.... I went with Bill, because I am not totally familiar with autos. If I had the money to authenticate I would but we do not...

I guess the situation that I'm thinking of is if someone waits X number of months to get it authenticated, then what? You're sitting with money that you can't spend for your charity and you don't have an item to sell. Just seems risky/unwise to me. Good luck either way.

alexs64 · Jan 7, 2013

All this bickering reminds me of a classic.....

Bill Menard · Jan 7, 2013

@csmtampa: That is a very kind gesture and FCB is full of members like this, which I LOVE! It isn't actually a charity - it is a scholarship fund for local high school students who want to pursue a career in music in memory of a friend of Paul's who was an avid musician and has passed away. Any donations that you or anyone else would like to make for that matter, could be sent to me. PM me and I'll send my address. All items are listed and sold on eBay, free of charge. I'm not making money off of them and am doing this solely to help Paul's committee generate money for the scholarship fund.

@alexs64: I think it's more of a difference of opinion on what is clearly a very sensitive issue in this market. It's good to have conversation and discussion. While I don't agree with name calling, I certainly understand the frustrations that people sometimes have with one another. Hopefully all ends well and the knowledge shared helps us all make better decisions and informed purchases in the the future. One of the great things about FCB is that users are most often helpful to one another, rather than just argumentative and accusatory, such as I see on other forums.

alexs64 · Jan 7, 2013

Bill Menard said:
@csmtampa: That is a very kind gesture and FCB is full of members like this, which I LOVE! It isn't actually a charity - it is a scholarship fund for local high school students who want to pursue a career in music in memory of a friend of Paul's who was an avid musician and has passed away. Any donations that you or anyone else would like to make for that matter, could be sent to me. PM me and I'll send my address. All items are listed and sold on eBay, free of charge. I'm not making money off of them and am doing this solely to help Paul's committee generate money for the scholarship fund.

@alexs64: I think it's more of a difference of opinion on what is clearly a very sensitive issue in this market. It's good to have conversation and discussion. While I don't agree with name calling, I certainly understand the frustrations that people sometimes have with one another. Hopefully all ends well and the knowledge shared helps us all make better decisions and informed purchases in the the future. One of the great things about FCB is that users are most often helpful to one another, rather than just argumentative and accusatory, such as I see on other forums.

Bill I hear you...sounds like bickering but can be seen your way as well. It was just a great opportunity to post the .gif. LOL

jumbojohnny · Jan 7, 2013

csmtampa said:
What kind of charity is it? Maybe I can donate some authentic autographs to help you guys out.

You're (YOU + ARE = YOU'RE) a better man than I. Right when he started with the name calling, I put my wallet away.

Bill, good luck to you and the task you have undertaken.

tikitomoka · Jan 7, 2013

That mantle isn't even close

mr148927 · Jan 7, 2013

I would like to clear one thing up ... We ARE a registered charity here in MA....

Jumbojonny... If you want to put your wallet away, that is fine...
You can chalk up my name calling to csmtampa, a result of complete frustration....

csmtampa.. I do apologize for calling you an ass. I am just frustrated, as I was thinking wow we got a great donation to the fund, Thsi should definately help out the cause... and well as you can see it is not working out so well...

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