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psj

Active member
Jul 24, 2015
2,058
0
Long Island
And with Beltre, I have no problem with a compiler type player getting into the HOF. Biggio and Beltre with 3000 hits, are 1st ballot in my mind. Beltre is gonna end up with well over 400 homers, maybe 500, and 3000 hits. Yes in part due to longevity. Being able to stay healthy is an accomplishment in of itself, but to stay healthy, and average 180 hits, 27 homers, and 95 rbi, is great. Those to me are avove average numbers, and to me that's what the hall is for, above average players. I.E. stars
 
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Jjoey52

Member
Feb 12, 2017
80
0
If you put just above average players in, you water it down a lot. If Beltre gets it how about Ron Cey, he was above average but certainly not elite.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

bstanwood

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2016
3,666
332
Mystic, CT
Shouldn't longevity play a part?? Maybe have ten years that are considered best ever are great but Hank Aaron played an awful long time, never had "the best season ever" but was just consistently really good. Longevity, particularly when. It means someone is willing to pay millions of dollars, now a days, for your services, that should mean something. I feel like we use terms like longevity and "compiler" as negatives, doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. I bring up Aaron not to knock him by any means but to illustrate my point that career longevity and productivity are not mutually exclusive. If Beltre, for example hung around and played 3 more years and ended with 500 homers why is that bad? To me that's a feather in his cap.

Just for a log on the fire if anyone thinks that Yadi isn't a hall of famer, get your head checked. Voters included...he's as elite as it gets.
 

RStadlerASU22

Active member
Jan 2, 2013
8,881
11
Hank Aaron 162 Avg was .305/37/113 , that's quite a bit different than .280/25/97 type players. Aaron is an example of REALLY good/great consistency, not just above average consistency.

Ryan
Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector
 

Super Mario

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2009
18,242
85
Mushroom Kingdom
Shouldn't longevity play a part?? Maybe have ten years that are considered best ever are great but Hank Aaron played an awful long time, never had "the best season ever" but was just consistently really good. Longevity, particularly when. It means someone is willing to pay millions of dollars, now a days, for your services, that should mean something. I feel like we use terms like longevity and "compiler" as negatives, doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. I bring up Aaron not to knock him by any means but to illustrate my point that career longevity and productivity are not mutually exclusive. If Beltre, for example hung around and played 3 more years and ended with 500 homers why is that bad? To me that's a feather in his cap.

Just for a log on the fire if anyone thinks that Yadi isn't a hall of famer, get your head checked. Voters included...he's as elite as it gets.

There have only been a handful of players as elite at any position as Yadi is at catcher. He's a once in a generation talent. Yes, I'm biased, and yes some may view that as hyperbole. And to those people, I politely say you're wrong.
 

u2me57

Well-known member
Mar 21, 2014
3,234
63
Hendersonville, Tn.
Great thread Topnotchsy. I pretty much agree with your picks overall. I'd really like to see Utely make it but as of right now I think he falls a little short. He has the best shot of making it out of the 5 best 2008 Phillies players who just retired or are still playing.

Of course, I can't wait for the 2018 HOF vote, where another former Philly player might get in. :p
 

crowhop

New member
Aug 8, 2008
978
0
Bedford Falls
The most interesting aspect of HOF Voting that we will see grow in the coming years and decades will be just how reliant voters are on WAR. I imagine a time coming soon when voters will simply look at that singular "stat" to determine if they will or will not vote for a certain player. I think there are a few guys who will not get into the HOF who have already retired (Scott Rolen, Larry Walker, Lou Whitaker, Edgar Martinez, etc), but would definitely get elected had retired in 2017 with their WAR.
 

johnryno

Member
Mar 23, 2017
520
0
Country Club of Maryland
"For me, baseball is what made me. They say a wolf cub believes the first thing it sees is its parent. Perhaps that is the way I sense baseball within myself."

I hope Ichiro gets his own display. His contributions as a player, philosopher, and international ambassador of baseball are, to my knowledge, unparalleled.
 

crowhop

New member
Aug 8, 2008
978
0
Bedford Falls
There have only been a handful of players as elite at any position as Yadi is at catcher. He's a once in a generation talent. Yes, I'm biased, and yes some may view that as hyperbole. And to those people, I politely say you're wrong.
With the ever-increasing importance of WAR, there's no one in their right mind who would rate Molina as a HOF candidate. By the numbers, player to player, Russell Martin has a better HOF case than Molina. The only thing Molina has going for him in the Cardinal fanbase.
 

nosterbor

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2010
6,099
431
Sunny Florida
Hank Aaron 162 Avg was .305/37/113 , that's quite a bit different than .280/25/97 type players. Aaron is an example of REALLY good/great consistency, not just above average consistency.

Ryan
Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector

15 years 162 avg= .295/42/135

12 years 162 avg= .295/40/130

Both players above will NEVER make the HOF. So I do not care any longer who makes the HOF.

19 years 162 avg= .266/2/50

The above player is in the HOF.

The HOF to me is a joke.
 

RStadlerASU22

Active member
Jan 2, 2013
8,881
11
15 years 162 avg= .295/42/135

12 years 162 avg= .295/40/130

Both players above will NEVER make the HOF. So I do not care any longer who makes the HOF.

19 years 162 avg= .266/2/50

The above player is in the HOF.

The HOF to me is a joke.
Are those Juan and Belle? Or Manny?



Ryan
Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector
 

U L Washington Rookie

Active member
Dec 7, 2012
1,623
0
D Town
Your point?

Molina has been caught cheating at the aspect of the game he's best at.

Also, with him having less than half the WAR (not and end-all, be-all stat, but a decent one-shot barometer) of Ivan Rodriguez (barely made it first-ballot) and Lou Whitaker (different position, but had no real Hall chance), your hyperbole above is amusing.
 

psj

Active member
Jul 24, 2015
2,058
0
Long Island
I agree with Juan and Belle having monstrous numbers, but Belle was caught cheating multiple times..as for Gonzalez, no clue
 

psj

Active member
Jul 24, 2015
2,058
0
Long Island
And outta Juan gones 17 seasons, 6 were 80gms or less, with luke 4 being 30game seasons. Makes his #'s even more impressive. I think he just had the misfortune of playing in a small market. He only made 3 all-star teams with those numbers. Insane
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
Craig Kimbrel has a real shot at the HOF.
He's averaged 40+ saves every year in the league, led the NL in saves his first four seasons, has a 1.81 career ERA and could go over 300 saves this year at age 29.

This season Kimbrel as an .083 ERA and is averaging 2 Ks an inning. He's been pure domination his entire career.

Aroldis Chapman also has a good shot. He's only 29 too, but has almost 100 fewer saves than Kimbrel.
 

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