HOF pitching stats?

VandyDan said:

What if it turns out he was hurt these past few years?

Or what say he has a couple 15-7 seasons in his early-mid 30s, with around 1 k/inning, and an era under 3.50?

I mean, if no one was as dominant for those 5-6 years as Koufax, no one was as dominant as Big Time Timmy Jims in those 2-3 years.

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RyanHowardCollector6 said:

Lincecum's Era+ from 2008-2009 was 170. His Era+ from 2010-2011 was only 120. So, he was dominant for 2 years and good for 2 years. He has not been good since, he is not a hall of famer as of now.

Johan's era+ from 2002-2010 was 150. He IS a hall of famer.

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D-Lite said:

Wins give you the Don Suttons of the HoF.

Sabermatrians give you the Blylevens and Gossages.

I'd say there's a definite shift in thinking these days. The counting stats will get you noticed but not in, especially as a reliever. 300 wins, 4000 K's, 3+ Cy Youngs, should all get you in (unless you're Clemens).

For me, the interesting cases for pitchers:
Mussina - had a sustained run of VERY good and has very good counting stats for a modern day pitcher (270 wins, 2813 K's, 3.68 ERA), but no Cy's
Lincecum - best days already behind him it seems, but absolutely dominant for a short duration, winning 2 Cy's and 2 WS
Halladay - 7 times in top 5 Cy voting (2x 1st, 2x 2nd), very good K/BB%, but not going to get the counting stats (201 wins, 2101 K's)

We're not probably going to see many more 300 win pitchers and I think that makes something like Mussina's 270 a big number. Pettitte is close at 253, but hasn't had the dominance (though did Sutton really have that either?). Thinking will have to shift if the HoF is to induct more starters.

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matfanofold said:

If there was a hall of very, very good then I would put Johan in today, however I am not sure voters will give him the nod in the hall. He was a awesome pitcher with a few exceptional years, but aside from his CY awards (which are note worthy), I'm just not sure the totality of his career has that 'wow' factor with regards to longevity and accomplishment/milestones...

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matfanofold said:

Like it or not, Wins are one of, if not the most important statistic a pitcher can have in his favor. Sure, it is a team statistic but speaks volumes about a pitchers field generalship. There are intangibles in the game that can not be measured by a abacus, and some pitchers command these intangibles above and beyond others. This translates to W's... So what the op calls arbitrary is, in reality, very important and telling...

As for the direct question, voters like pitchers who are winners.

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cards01fan said:

I couldn't disagree more about the wins, a great pitcher on a bad team can have 8-10 wins, and an average pitcher on a good team will have 13-15 wins Look at lance Lynn 18 wins last year and 13 so far this year. Average pitcher at best

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cards01fan said:

? If he average 13 a year for 20 years? That's 260?

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cards01fan said:

? If he average 13 a year for 20 years? That's 260?

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Topnotchsy said:

I think (though I may be wrong) that what he is saying is that over times wins even out and a pitcher will largely regress to the mean so an average pitcher will ultimately have an average number of wins or close to it (multiplies by the number of seasons played).

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cards01fan said:

? If he average 13 a year for 20 years? That's 260?

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VandyDan said:

What if it turns out he was hurt these past few years?

Or what say he has a couple 15-7 seasons in his early-mid 30s, with around 1 k/inning, and an era under 3.50?

I mean, if no one was as dominant for those 5-6 years as Koufax, no one was as dominant as Big Time Timmy Jims in those 2-3 years.

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UMich92 said:

How about 14 a year for 23 years? Those are Don Sutton's totals. For me, Sutton was a very good pitcher for a very long time. Even though I wouldn't consider him an "all-time great" I still think he is rightfully in the HOF.

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elmalo said:

Pedro had a serious stretch of dominance that may have been as good if not better than Koufax.

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RyanHowardCollector6 said:

Don Sutton had a career era+ of 108. Wow that is shockingly mediocre and it makes me want to waste 2 hours analyzing him to death.



Greatest career ERA+ of all time for a starter. I think Pedro is the best starting pitcher of all time if you're looking at the context of their dominance. Pedro pitched in such an offensive dominant era, which minimizes just how much better he was than any other starter in his era.

From 1997-2003 he was:

118 wins, 36 losses, 2.20 era, 34 cg, 11 shutouts, 11.3 SO/9!!!, 5.59 SO/BB!!!, 213 ERA+!!!

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