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Probstein & bbcardsniper AKA Brad Ziegler EXPOSED

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Luck15Hope

New member
Jan 11, 2012
140
0

And go figure the percentage of bids with Probstein from the top FOUR bidders of that particular auction. Compare the total bids with the bid percentages from Probstein alone. Bigboyd has written these types of bidders off as "loyal customers". Nothing to see here . . . move along. ;)

Winning bidder u***i (198) 153 Total bids -50% of those w/ Probstein

2nd place bidder m***c (2870) 18 Total bids - 66% of those w/ Probstein

3rd place bidder a***t ( 7325) 138 Total bids -51% of those w/ Probstein

4th place bidder r***s ( 288) 136 Total bids - 90% of thosew/ Probstein
 
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RStadlerASU22

Active member
Jan 2, 2013
8,881
11
Do you guys honestly think that 4 people took their time to bid up a Andre Dawson $30 Autograph and Probstein is behind it? I just can't see that type of activity happening on such low dollar cards.

Maybe I'm blind but I truly think some of these larger seller have such a following and so many listings that these buyers are only looking at their listings (or at least focused) on their listings. Smart for the buyer, no, but I feel that happens.

Ryan
 

Lancemountain

Active member
Apr 11, 2009
8,313
5
Philadelphia
Do you guys honestly think that 4 people took their time to bid up a Andre Dawson $30 Autograph and Probstein is behind it? I just can't see that type of activity happening on such low dollar cards.

Yes. The most counterfeited American bill is the $20. No one expects it. Every cashier looks at the $50's and $100's handed to them but they all take $20's without a flinch. Shilling a rare Posey Knob card is easy to catch---everyone is watching. Like counterfeiting a $100 bill.......but shilling 30-40$ cards adds up to huge money when you sell as many cards as Probstein, and no one questions it. "why would anyone bid up a $30 Dawson card?" is exactly what they want us all to think. Systematic shilling, even a little bit, adds up to huge profits for Probstein.
 

Hawk8

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2013
8,376
229
Louisiana

You should be able to grab this card for $10-$15 easy all day long. I don't buy the theory that these mega sellers have a cult following that only bid on their items. Are there that many stupid bidders out there that are going to pay 3x the going price of a card just because of who is selling it? I would even go as far to bet that there are more bidders that will not bid on items of these sellers than there are bidders that will only bid on items from these sellers.
 

homerun28aa

Active member
Jun 8, 2011
19,072
8
You are spot on. Alot of high end cards I don't have a set price I will pay. I watch the bidding and competition and bid accordingly. So when there is shilling it really screws you and really bothers me. It's not as cut and dry as just putting a snipe in

That's a good way to describe it, some of the time you have to play the competition and bid accordingly. It's never as cut and dry with those cards as it went for $400 a year ago and that's what I should pay now - the Thorpe card I showed you is a good example but unfortunately I was on the wrong end of that swing though lol. Plus a lot of the time with these cards you're not talking about shilling that costs you $20, more like $200+, which in card terms equals a Roger Maris patch or something. Shilling is wrong either way whether you're a HOF collector or a base collector you shouldn't be shilled but again I think this guy picked the perfect situation/opportunity to pull something like this.
 

ChasHawk

New member
Sep 4, 2008
22,482
0
Belvidere, Illinois
You should be able to grab this card for $10-$15 easy all day long. I don't buy the theory that these mega sellers have a cult following that only bid on their items. Are there that many stupid bidders out there that are going to pay 3x the going price of a card just because of who is selling it? I would even go as far to bet that there are more bidders that will not bid on items of these sellers than there are bidders that will only bid on items from these sellers.

I purposely avoid his auctions.
 

Hawk8

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2013
8,376
229
Louisiana
I purposely avoid his auctions.

I don't avoid them but I'm not going to overpay either, I had my eye on two of his auctions last night, won one and I thought the other one went too high so I let it go


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

swish54_99

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2012
1,160
221
I avoid their auctions as well. Why pay that much more for something when you can get it cheaper somewhere else and put what you "saved" towards something else to better your collection?
 

Hawk8

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2013
8,376
229
Louisiana
I rarely even notice a seller's name, usually just a quick glance at the positive feedback percentage

I don't look at a seller's name nor do I look at a feedback score. After I have won an auction I will look at the seller's name and search what else they have for sale of Dawson in case I want to save on some shipping. eBay will take care of me if something goes wrong with the transaction.
 

ChasHawk

New member
Sep 4, 2008
22,482
0
Belvidere, Illinois
I don't look at a seller's name nor do I look at a feedback score. After I have won an auction I will look at the seller's name and search what else they have for sale of Dawson in case I want to save on some shipping. eBay will take care of me if something goes wrong with the transaction.

Not if you were shilled they won't.
 

phillyfan0417

Well-known member
Administrator
Aug 7, 2008
43,551
43
Greenfield, Wisconsin, United States
Yes. The most counterfeited American bill is the $20. No one expects it. Every cashier looks at the $50's and $100's handed to them but they all take $20's without a flinch. Shilling a rare Posey Knob card is easy to catch---everyone is watching. Like counterfeiting a $100 bill.......but shilling 30-40$ cards adds up to huge money when you sell as many cards as Probstein, and no one questions it. "why would anyone bid up a $30 Dawson card?" is exactly what they want us all to think. Systematic shilling, even a little bit, adds up to huge profits for Probstein.

Are you aware of his pricing structure?


Systematic shilling equals higher selling prices for his customers. those higher prices get him pennies...
 

Hawk8

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2013
8,376
229
Louisiana
Not if you were shilled they won't.

That isn't what I was referring to. If the price doesn't go above what I'm willing to pay for it then I guess I don't worry if it is shilled or not, I'm not going to worry about what I can't control if the ending price of the card is in the range of my perceived value of what I am willing to pay for the card


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RStadlerASU22

Active member
Jan 2, 2013
8,881
11
Yes. The most counterfeited American bill is the $20. No one expects it. Every cashier looks at the $50's and $100's handed to them but they all take $20's without a flinch. Shilling a rare Posey Knob card is easy to catch---everyone is watching. Like counterfeiting a $100 bill.......but shilling 30-40$ cards adds up to huge money when you sell as many cards as Probstein, and no one questions it. "why would anyone bid up a $30 Dawson card?" is exactly what they want us all to think. Systematic shilling, even a little bit, adds up to huge profits for Probstein.

What's the end game? Basically if you're agreeing that those top 4 bids are shillers because they have 50-90% bid history w/ the seller. So, what good would that do Probstein if the top bidder wasn't an actual buyer? Go through canceling transaction, getting FVF backs and relisting the card? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Again, I can see the owners of the listings being tempted to shill, not the consignor in this case.

Ryan
 

Luck15Hope

New member
Jan 11, 2012
140
0
What's the end game? Basically if you're agreeing that those top 4 bids are shillers because they have 50-90% bid history w/ the seller. So, what good would that do Probstein if the top bidder wasn't an actual buyer? Go through canceling transaction, getting FVF backs and relisting the card? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Again, I can see the owners of the listings being tempted to shill, not the consignor in this case.

Ryan

It is not necessarily "what good would that do Probstein if the top bidder wasnt an actual buyer". Sometimes it has nothing to do with Probstein profiting immediately. When these types of auctions are bid up in the manner we have here with the Dawson card, notice that all 4 of the top bidders are bidding at a price above what the others have sold for. This could be a case of the owner of the card bidding up this card to an unrealistic amount to manipulate the future sales of this particular card once relisted. By having 4 different users bidding higher amounts than the current market value gives the perception that more collectors desire to have this card and are willing to pay extra. When it is relisted, some users look at recent completed sales to make their judgement on what the current market value is for cards. When they see this inflated, shilled price, which still appears as a sale under the eBay completed listings although there was no sale, that alone might entice a buyer to dish out more money on the relisted card. If that amount is even just a little less than the shilled price, the buyer might feel like he got a "steal" on the relisted one when in reality, he did not. This is where the higher profit would come in to play for Probstein on the relisted item. Having to cancel the original sale and relist the card costs Probstein absolutely nothing, so if he can profit off of the relisted item, its a win win. Although Probstein may not be directly involved in some of the shilling taking place in his auctions, the potential for him to make higher profits is still there by ignoring it when it does happen.
 
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RStadlerASU22

Active member
Jan 2, 2013
8,881
11
It is not necessarily "what good would that do Probstein if the top bidder wasnt an actual buyer". Sometimes it has nothing to do with Probstein profiting immediately. When these types of auctions are bid up in the manner we have here with the Dawson card, notice that all 4 of the top bidders are bidding at a price above what the others have sold for. This could be a case of the owner of the card bidding up this card to an unrealistic amount to manipulate the future sales of this particular card once relisted. By having 4 different users bidding higher amounts than the current market value gives the perception that more collectors desire to have this card and are willing to pay extra. When it is relisted, some users look at recent completed sales to make their judgement on what the current market value is for cards. When they see this inflated, shilled price, which still appears as a sale under the eBay completed listings although there was no sale, that alone might entice a buyer to dish out more money on the relisted card. If that amount is even just a little less than the shilled price, the buyer might feel like he got a "steal" on the relisted one when in reality, he did not. This is where the higher profit would come in to play for Probstein on the relisted item. Having to cancel the original sale and relist the card costs Probstein absolutely nothing, so if he can profit off of the relisted item, its a win win. Although Probstein may not be directly involved in some of the shilling taking place in his auctions, the potential for him to make higher profits is still there by ignoring it when it does happen.

Not questioning that theory at all if the owners of the cards are involved. But to put that blame on the consignor is extremely unjust unless you can prove that. I have no trouble believing owners of the cards can shill to create false sales for future gains. And I will also agree that the "cost" for the consignor to get fees back and relist costs nothing, except time/aggravation. Which when you have that many listings that can be a pain that I can't see them wanting to go through, but who knows. I guess I'm more in the camp of putting the blame on the card owners shilling not the consignor policing the bids in each listing.

Ryan
 

Lancemountain

Active member
Apr 11, 2009
8,313
5
Philadelphia
Are you aware of his pricing structure?

Is this accurate?

over $2500 , you get 90% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw $1000-$2499 , you get 89% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw 100-$999 , you get 88% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw $50-99 , you get 87% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw $25-49 , you get 86% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
below $25 , you get 85% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
 

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