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Bat vs. Bat Knob: Am I Going Crazy?!

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Juan Gris

Well-known member
May 23, 2013
2,222
106
Columbus, OH
Let me preface this topic by saying that while I do not personally collect game used cards, I can appreciate their place in the hobby and their appeal to collectors. I prefer to own the entire game used item (mostly bats) and think the small portion of material included in a card should not result in card prices so much higher than what it costs the manufacturer to place a small fraction of the bat/jersey in each card. Supply and demand are what push the card market (I get it, believe me!) but sometimes I can't help shaking my head.

Case in point:

I bought this game used bat earlier this year for $143.51. It is signed, shows moderate game use and has a light coat of pine tar on the handle.
Bat 2.jpg
This is the knob of my bat:
Bat 1.jpg

Last night, this 2005 Topps Pristine bat knob card sold for $191.50. I think it's a beautiful card but HOW IN THE HELL DOES IT COST $48 MORE THAN AN ENTIRE GAME USED BAT?!
Knob.JPG


I can understand paying good money for a card with a game used piece from an item that would've cost a ton of money before being cut up (Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, etc.). Most of us can't spend $300K on a game used jersey but we can afford to own a small piece of that item at a small fraction of that price. Where do we draw the line? Is there a line?
 

gmarutiak

Active member
Jul 23, 2010
1,386
2
Baltimore, MD
Nice purchase for a great price on your part! That's a beautiful piece.

As for the card, did Topps not have a license in 2005? Why the heck would they make a card without a picture of the player? Oh, Topps.

It's amazing how much more collectors will spend, as long as it comes in 2 1/2" by 3 1/2" form.
 

gracecollector

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
6,559
215
Lake in the Hills, IL
143.51 = price of bat
+20.00 = licensing fees to MLB and MLBPA
+6.28 = card stock / printing costs
+9.16 = labor / production costs
+3.04 = packaging costs
+3.17 = marketing / advertising costs
+6.34 = distribution costs
______________

191.50
 

Juan Gris

Well-known member
May 23, 2013
2,222
106
Columbus, OH
Nice purchase for a great price on your part! That's a beautiful piece.

As for the card, did Topps not have a license in 2005? Why the heck would they make a card without a picture of the player? Oh, Topps.

It's amazing how much more collectors will spend, as long as it comes in 2 1/2" by 3 1/2" form.
Thanks! My bat isn't cracked so I can still use it at the batting cage! ;)

They do put a picture of the players on the back of these cards but I think the design would have been better with them on front.
Knob 2.JPG
 

Juan Gris

Well-known member
May 23, 2013
2,222
106
Columbus, OH
143.51 = price of bat
+20.00 = licensing fees to MLB and MLBPA
+6.28 = card stock / printing costs
+9.16 = labor / production costs
+3.04 = packaging costs
+3.17 = marketing / advertising costs
+6.34 = distribution costs
______________

191.50

:p It's a shame they throw the other 99% of the bat in the trash after they cut off that sliver of bat knob. You would think they could find a way to make hundreds of game used bat cards from the rest...
 
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gracecollector

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
6,559
215
Lake in the Hills, IL

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
Some people only collect cards. But to add to your point, the same thing happens with autos sometimes. A non-rookie auto can sometimes outsell an OMLB auto'd on the sweetspot. And even a bat or jersey. It's collectors who have to have everything that pay the prices you see. There are a handful of times I've paid more for a Bagwell auto than it would cost to buy one on a ball or bat.
 

The Collector

New member
Feb 11, 2014
122
0
California
Most bat knob cards are serial numbered 1/1. There can be hundreds of X player autographed bats, whereas there is only 1 bat knob card.
 
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nkdbacks

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
865
51
AZ
Some people only collect cards. But to add to your point, the same thing happens with autos sometimes. A non-rookie auto can sometimes outsell an OMLB auto'd on the sweetspot. And even a bat or jersey. It's collectors who have to have everything that pay the prices you see. There are a handful of times I've paid more for a Bagwell auto than it would cost to buy one on a ball or bat.

This is how I am. I think full GU items are cool, but I collect cards, not memorabilia, for the most part. They just have more appeal to me than a full item. Might sound a bit crazy and I totally understand wanting to have the whole item, but that's just not my collection. So, I'm willing to pay more for the card.
 

Juan Gris

Well-known member
May 23, 2013
2,222
106
Columbus, OH
Nope. Topps bought all their swatch making technology from the Looney Tunes bankruptcy auction:

http://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-1829720-stock-footage-cartoon-of-toothpick-factory.html

That's perfect!

I triple-dog dare ya!

:eek::grin:

Some people only collect cards. But to add to your point, the same thing happens with autos sometimes. A non-rookie auto can sometimes outsell an OMLB auto'd on the sweetspot. And even a bat or jersey. It's collectors who have to have everything that pay the prices you see. There are a handful of times I've paid more for a Bagwell auto than it would cost to buy one on a ball or bat.
Very true. I think most people collecting game used cards do not collect whole game used items and vice versa.

Most bat knob cards are serial numbered 1/1. There can be hundreds of X player autographed bats, whereas there is only 1 bat knob card.

I understand that each bat can only provide the material to make one bat knob card and one bat name plate card, hence a premium over cards containing "regular" bat pieces. Stepping back from our collecting perspective, I find it interesting that the whole bat could sell for $48 less than a card containing a sliver of that bat.
 

The Collector

New member
Feb 11, 2014
122
0
California
I understand that each bat can only provide the material to make one bat knob card and one bat name plate card, hence a premium over cards containing "regular" bat pieces. Stepping back from our collecting perspective, I find it interesting that the whole bat could sell for $48 less than a card containing a sliver of that bat.


Rarity = value. Autographed bats are not especially rare. Slap a serial number on a chunk of said bat and it becomes worth more than the entire bat itself.

Right now I can go find 100 Hank Aaron autograph baseball bats. If I wanted a Hank Aaron bat knob card I'd be SOL. If one popped up it would sell for 10x what his autographed bat would. Scarcity is what drives this hobby.
 

rsmath

Active member
Nov 8, 2008
6,086
1
:p It's a shame they throw the other 99% of the bat in the trash after they cut off that sliver of bat knob. You would think they could find a way to make hundreds of game used bat cards from the rest...

why do you say they throw away the rest of the bat and not make bat relic cards from the rest?
Doesn't Dunn have any bat relic cards other than the knob?

I would like to see Topps be innovative and make bat cross-cut cards (so if you don't get the knob, you can still have a cross section from someplace on the bat, ranging from half-dollar size in the region around the handle to baseball-sized cross section out at the barrel end.

I know UD in at least one release made jumbo bat relics but i doubt they were sourced from bat cross-sections but rather made from larger bat chips.
 

The Collector

New member
Feb 11, 2014
122
0
California
I would like to see Topps be innovative and make bat cross-cut cards (so if you don't get the knob, you can still have a cross section from someplace on the bat, ranging from half-dollar size in the region around the handle to baseball-sized cross section out at the barrel end.

They already do:

iu0wQaR.jpg
 

Juan Gris

Well-known member
May 23, 2013
2,222
106
Columbus, OH
Rarity = value. Autographed bats are not especially rare. Slap a serial number on a chunk of said bat and it becomes worth more than the entire bat itself.

Right now I can go find 100 Hank Aaron autograph baseball bats. If I wanted a Hank Aaron bat knob card I'd be SOL. If one popped up it would sell for 10x what his autographed bat would. Scarcity is what drives this hobby.

An autographed bat is not especially rare but an autographed game used bat is rare. What makes a game used bat card rare: the piece of GU bat or the cardboard housing it? If it's the piece of bat, then why wouldn't the whole bat be worth more? I think it's interesting to think about our collecting mindset. I am NOT trying to say there is anything wrong with GU cards, just that I don't think GU cards should inherently be worth more than a whole GU item.

why do you say they throw away the rest of the bat and not make bat relic cards from the rest?
Doesn't Dunn have any bat relic cards other than the knob?


I would like to see Topps be innovative and make bat cross-cut cards (so if you don't get the knob, you can still have a cross section from someplace on the bat, ranging from half-dollar size in the region around the handle to baseball-sized cross section out at the barrel end.

I know UD in at least one release made jumbo bat relics but i doubt they were sourced from bat cross-sections but rather made from larger bat chips.

I was poking fun at gracecollector's explanation of why the bat knob card is worth $48 more than the bat (he does bring up a good point about the costs that go into producing a game used card besides the price of the game used item). Dunn has had a ton of game used bat cards over the years and I'm sure they aren't wasting a single toothpick of his bats.
 
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Mighty Bombjack

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
6,115
12
This discussion comes up pretty frequently in autograph circles. Why do cut autograph cards produced by Topps or UD cost so much more than other auto'd items? I think the answer is simple (and pretty obvious given the present milieu): people like baseball cards.

Look, I can get you a nice photo of Albert Pujols from 2000 Spring Training (in the Cards uniform and everything). I will type up a nice bio and scouting report for the back. I will get him to sign it beautifully on the front. Why do people want the one that Topps made? Yes, it was made ahem he was a rookie, but more than that, it's a baseball card.
 

MansGame

Active member
Sep 25, 2009
15,324
20
Dallas, TX
I have gone around and around on this question... I've posted that I've purchased all three of my gamer bats of Albert Belle for around $100 each and yet a nameplate Belle goes for $300 or something like that. Belle has three bat knobs that I've never seen and don't own any but when they show up on eBay one day, I can bet you a hamburger they don't go for $100 unless the seller is drunk or stoned or both.

That all said, I think the real answer is some people collect full game used memorabilia and some people collect cards and some people collect both. I've heard the argument about some people just want a card and not a full bat, blah blah blah. Someone has already said that it's serial numbered 1/1 most of the time and that in itself changes it's value, what it is, etc.

What I do know is Aristotle is full of sh!t with is famous quote "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts" ;)
 

bigunitcards

Member
Sep 8, 2013
654
0
OKC, OK
The whole notion of anyone paying more than a $1 for a piece of cardboard with some guy's picture on it could be viewed as silly.

The idea of someone paying $100 million for an original painting instead of $20 for an HD print could be viewed as crazy.

The idea of sitting on a blanket in July and watching bright lights explode in the sky for 10 minutes could be viewed as simplistic.

The idea of buying a 20 oz Dr Pepper for $1.79 instead of a 2 Liter for $1.29 could be viewed as dumb.

The idea of working/commuting 12 hours a day & sleeping 8 hours a night in order to 'live' 4 hours a day can be viewed as misguided.


We are humans, not a lot of what we do makes mathematical sense!!!
 

Juan Gris

Well-known member
May 23, 2013
2,222
106
Columbus, OH
This discussion comes up pretty frequently in autograph circles. Why do cut autograph cards produced by Topps or UD cost so much more than other auto'd items? I think the answer is simple (and pretty obvious given the present milieu): people like baseball cards.
Very true. Our hobby has gone down a path where collectors throw reasoning out the window. This was happening back in the 80's long before game used cards hit the hobby. I think with game used cards, and this bat knob example specifically, I have something more tangible to point out that card companies are selling pennies for dollars.

That all said, I think the real answer is some people collect full game used memorabilia and some people collect cards and some people collect both. I've heard the argument about some people just want a card and not a full bat, blah blah blah. Someone has already said that it's serial numbered 1/1 most of the time and that in itself changes it's value, what it is, etc.

What I do know is Aristotle is full of sh!t with is famous quote "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts" ;)
These people can't be crazy in the sense they understand why they're collecting both game used cards and full game used items. Schizophrenic, perhaps?:p
 
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MansGame

Active member
Sep 25, 2009
15,324
20
Dallas, TX
The whole notion of anyone paying more than a $1 for a piece of cardboard with some guy's picture on it could be viewed as silly.

The idea of someone paying $100 million for an original painting instead of $20 for an HD print could be viewed as crazy.

The idea of sitting on a blanket in July and watching bright lights explode in the sky for 10 minutes could be viewed as simplistic.

The idea of buying a 20 oz Dr Pepper for $1.79 instead of a 2 Liter for $1.29 could be viewed as dumb.

The idea of working/commuting 12 hours a day & sleeping 8 hours a night in order to 'live' 4 hours a day can be viewed as misguided.


We are humans, not a lot of what we do makes mathematical sense!!!
Hahaha! Post of the year candidate right here... love it.
 
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