THE GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL-TIME TEAM - by position - Starting Pitcher (1871-1918)

[sportscardtheory]

Lets assemble the greatest team ever by voting on who the best overall is at each position. Up currently, starting pitchers who's career started in 1871 to 1918. I'll do the next after we get 50+ votes, then the next and so on.

VOTE FOR YOUR TOP-TWO

C - JOHNNY BENCH
1B - LOU GEHRIG
2B - ROGERS HORNSBY
SS - HONUS WAGNER
3B - MIKE SCHMIDT
LF - TED WILLIAMS
CF - WILLIE MAYS
RF - BABE RUTH
DH - EDGAR MARTINEZ
SP -
SP -
SP -
SP -
RP -


SP rotation pool - LP - SANDY KOUFAX, RANDY JOHNSON

SP rotation pool - 1871-1918 - WALTER JOHNSON, CY YOUNG

 

[ChasHawk]

Johnson - 1
Matty - 1a

I don't care if they call it the Cy Young award...:lol:

 

[MojoDan]

For me its WJ and then everyone else. The avatar was/is probably a giveaway though

 

[leatherman]

The "first five" players who were inducted in the HOF: Cobb, Ruth, Wagner, Johnson, and Mathewson. If we vote Johnson and Mathewson to our All Time Team, Cobb will be the only player from those NOT on our team. Interestingly, Cobb received the highest percentage of votes of anyone, 98.2% to Ruth and Wagner's identical 95.1%. In 1936, Cobb was essentially viewed as the greatest player of all time, ahead of even Ruth.

 

[MojoDan]

The "first five" players who were inducted in the HOF: Cobb, Ruth, Wagner, Johnson, and Mathewson. If we vote Johnson and Mathewson to our All Time Team, Cobb will be the only player from those NOT on our team. Interestingly, Cobb received the highest percentage of votes of anyone, 98.2% to Ruth and Wagner's identical 95.1%. In 1936, Cobb was essentially viewed as the greatest player of all time, ahead of even Ruth.

It'll be really interesting when we get to the Seaver/Ryan vote, as I think they are two of the highest vote getters of all time...

 

[scotty216brs]

1. Walter Johnson
2. Christy Mathewson
3. Pete Alexander
4. Addie Joss
5. Smokey Joe Wood

I would put Ed Walsh on this list but not sure if voting for a spitballer is taboo or not. =P

Smokey Joe is the pre-war Koufax, extremely dominant for a short stretch until injuries ruined his pitching career....I would have him higher on the list but sadly he didn't pitch enough innings for me to do so. He is tied for 5th all time in ERA+ (Highest of any of the pitchers on that list, tied with Walter Johnson)

 

[leatherman]

It'll be really interesting when we get to the Seaver/Ryan vote, as I think they are two of the highest vote getters of all time...

Ryan is quite popular, and I love him, but he shouldn't get many votes as one of the greatest pitchers ever. His .526 winning percentage (and third most losses all time), leading the league in walks eight times (including over 200 walks in a season twice), and lack of a single Cy Young award show that he was not nearly as dominant over his career as he is perceived to be. I have no problem with him being in the Hall of Fame, but his inclusion on a list of ten best righthanders of all time is more of a novelty and placation of his fans than anything else.

 

[MojoDan]

My response was more of a play on yours with the voting percentage. I dont think they'll be the leading vote getters on here, but was a reference to your post. I haven't looked it up but isn't it Seaver, Ryan, Ripken as far as highest votes received all time?

Ryan is quite popular, and I love him, but he shouldn't get many votes as one of the greatest pitchers ever. His .526 winning percentage (and third most losses all time), leading the league in walks eight times (including over 200 walks in a season twice), and lack of a single Cy Young award show that he was not nearly as dominant over his career as he is perceived to be. I have no problem with him being in the Hall of Fame, but his inclusion on a list of ten best righthanders of all time is more of a novelty and placation of his fans than anything else.

 

[nosterbor]

Ryan is quite popular, and I love him, but he shouldn't get many votes as one of the greatest pitchers ever. His .526 winning percentage (and third most losses all time), leading the league in walks eight times (including over 200 walks in a season twice), and lack of a single Cy Young award show that he was not nearly as dominant over his career as he is perceived to be. I have no problem with him being in the Hall of Fame, but his inclusion on a list of ten best righthanders of all time is more of a novelty and placation of his fans than anything else.

You should have noted that Ryan's winning % was much higher than the teams he played on. Most teams he played on just flat out sucked. Astros,Angels Rangers.

 

[noaskiecards]

Ryan is quite popular, and I love him, but he shouldn't get many votes as one of the greatest pitchers ever. His .526 winning percentage (and third most losses all time), leading the league in walks eight times (including over 200 walks in a season twice), and lack of a single Cy Young award show that he was not nearly as dominant over his career as he is perceived to be. I have no problem with him being in the Hall of Fame, but his inclusion on a list of ten best righthanders of all time is more of a novelty and placation of his fans than anything else.

leatherman...good points on all accounts

But you have to note that Ryan did lose a lot of games, but he appeared to also not get much run support...In 1987 at the age of 40 years old, he led the NL in ERA with a respectable 2.76 ERA (along with leading the league with 270 Ks against only 87 BBs) but ended with an 8-16 record (which still got him a 5th place CY young vote). No season in his career had an ERA over 4.00, including his final seasons up until the age of 43...

His ERA/WHIP of 3.19/1.25 are definitely less impressive though than Seaver's 2.86/1.12...The WHIP especially is probably a bit high for best of all time consideration, but nonetheless, he's definitely a top hall of fame pitcher

It's a shame he didn't spend more of his career with the Mets as well...Interesting that he went into the HOF as a Texas Ranger with 5 years there instead of the 17 years with the Angels/Astros...I guess he loves them Rangers!

 

[leatherman]

My response was more of a play on yours with the voting percentage. I dont think they'll be the leading vote getters on here, but was a reference to your post. I haven't looked it up but isn't it Seaver, Ryan, Ripken as far as highest votes received all time?

Understood. I didn't take it that way. But I know the Ryan discussion is coming up, and I wanted to throw the first punch.

 

[leatherman]

You should have noted that Ryan's winning % was much higher than the teams he played on. Most teams he played on just flat out sucked. Astros,Angels Rangers.

I didn't note that because it simply isn't true. Here are the teams Ryan played for and their records while he was there (I did not include 1966 when he played 2 games with the Mets and went 0-1):
Mets 1968-1971 339-309
Angels 1972-1979 619-669
Astros 1980-1988 733-674
Texas 1989-1993 414-396
Total 2105-2048 .507 winning percentage for the teams Ryan played for, vs Ryan's .526 winning percentage. I don't think his winning percentage is that much higher, and with the teams he played for having a winning percentage over .500 for his career, I don't think it can be argued that "most teams he played for just flat out sucked." Ryan was only 33 games over .500 for his career (not counting the 0-1 1966 season), so even if you remove his games, his teams were still 24 games over .500 in the games he didn't account for.

 

[PujolsCollector]

I have to take former St.Louis Cardinals Denton True "CY" Young over Walter Johnson in this one!

 

[MojoDan]

Understood. I didn't take it that way. But I know the Ryan discussion is coming up, and I wanted to throw the first punch.

Very well then...

 

[sportscardtheory]

Bump for votes.

 

[elmalo]

Ryan is quite popular, and I love him, but he shouldn't get many votes as one of the greatest pitchers ever. His .526 winning percentage (and third most losses all time), leading the league in walks eight times (including over 200 walks in a season twice), and lack of a single Cy Young award show that he was not nearly as dominant over his career as he is perceived to be. I have no problem with him being in the Hall of Fame, but his inclusion on a list of ten best righthanders of all time is more of a novelty and placation of his fans than anything else.

He was on some bad teams.

 

[scotty216brs]

Why are we talking about Ryan? I didn't realize he pitched back in the early 1900's....

 

[sportscardtheory]

One last bump for votes. Next poll coming tomorrow.

 

[homerun28aa]

Voted for Johnson and Young...either one could win this one. If I absolutely had to choose, I'd say the big train was the best. But if this was /100, walter johnson is 100/100 cy young is 99/100 and matthewson is 98/100. That's how close it is