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2022 HOF Class ballot...

bstanwood

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2016
3,490
236
Mystic, CT
I'm still not at a point where I can vote for PED users, maybe some day, but not today. I'm talking either their own admission or a positive test, lots of suspicion around people but I think we are far enough into this that if they didn't test positive they are either the craftiest player ever or they didn't do it.
It's also hard for me to not separate my own feelings for a player, even as a Sox fan I despise Schilling and I don't think I could check his box, fairly or unfairly.
I think Scott Rolen and Andrew Jones deserve it, both had pretty sustained "peaks" and played a premium position, I don't think either will be elected this year, but I think they are the only two boxes I'd check.
 

JVHaste

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2015
4,645
232
Vancouver WA
I despise Schilling and I don't think I could check his box, fairly or unfairly.
I was at that point too, until I heard that he trash talked D2R to his face in a Gamestop. 😂 That adds +25 WAR. Also him keeping ketchup packets in his socks for a corn dog after the game (but pretends its a serious injury) gives him +5 WAR. Do we know if he was a PED guy? If he isn't a juicer he might be the best non-juicer on the whole ballot.
 

gt2590

Super Moderator
Aug 17, 2008
35,756
721
Near Philly
I was at that point too, until I heard that he trash talked D2R to his face in a Gamestop. 😂 That adds +25 WAR. Also him keeping ketchup packets in his socks for a corn dog after the game (but pretends its a serious injury) gives him +5 WAR. Do we know if he was a PED guy? If he isn't a juicer he might be the best non-juicer on the whole ballot.
Obviously, we’ll never know 100% for sure if he PEDing but there was never even a whisper about it during his playing days.

And his body type was more doughy than ripped…
 

JVHaste

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2015
4,645
232
Vancouver WA
Obviously, we’ll never know 100% for sure if he PEDing but there was never even a whisper about it during his playing days.

And his body type was more doughy than ripped…
Yeah, its real hard to know for sure... when a guy like Dee Gordon gets popped, anyone could be on it!

Speculation time: if you were to make a list of all those names above from most likely PED to least likely, what would it look like? I'd have a ton of them as either locks for PED use or highly likely. Perhaps the lowest % chance of doping for me would be Tim Lincecum.
 

WizardofOz1982

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2017
1,227
476
Oklahoma
Known Users:
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Gary Sheffield
Manny Ramirez
Sammy Sosa
Andy Pettitte
Alex Rodriguez

Highly Suspected (80% sure):
David Ortiz

50/50 Chance:
Todd Helton
Torii Hunter
Bobby Abreu
Carl Crawford
Ryan Howard
Justin Morneau
Jonathan Papelbon
A.J. Pierzynski

25% Chance:
Billy Wagner
Andruw Jones
Tim Hudson
Joe Nathan

10% Chance:
Prince Fielder
Mark Teixeira
Jeff Kent
Curt Schilling
Scott Rolen
Omar Vizquel
Mark Buehrle
Tim Lincecum
Jimmy Rollins
Jake Peavy
 

swish54_99

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2012
1,063
113
My initial reaction was that it is a pretty weak new class. There aren't any first ballot, sure fire candidates, so I think it bodes well for those fringe guys (schilling, vizquel, rolen, wagner). Schilling was the closest last year at 71%, so I could see him getting the few more necessary votes this year. I could see rolen, vizquel, and wagner getting extremely close this year too. All were about 50% last year. The wild card being vizquel with his harassment allegations coming out since the last vote. I could see that really hurting his chances. Who knows about bonds and clemens. They've always been around that 60% mark. This is their last year on the ballot, so do they get that final bump from those writers who've just wanted to punish them and make them wait as long as possible?
 

popguynyc

New member
Feb 11, 2012
25
7
Gonna put this put there:
Here is the list of all players in baseball history with 200 homers, 2,000 hits and 450 stolen bases: Barry Bonds, Rickey Henderson, Joe Morgan, Paul Molitor, Roberto Alomar and Jimmy Rollins.

That makes me put Rollins ahead of Howard, as far as Phillies go, for HOF consideration. FWIW
 

bstanwood

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2016
3,490
236
Mystic, CT
If Andruw deserves it then so does Jim Edmonds.




Sent from my iPhone using Freedom Card Board mobile app
I don't like comparing two players in that scenario. If player A makes the hof then player B must also be a Hof. I get comparisons will happen and it makes for great discussion but that's not how I look at it.
At the same time, I wouldn't have been crying foul if Edmonds had gotten waaaaay more consideration. He was an all time great glove in center and had more than a decent bat, there wasn't anything he did poorly and did just about everything above average at minimum. But I won't punish another player because Edmonds didn't get in.
Buster Posey will be a great example of this discussion in 5 years
 

mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
4,496
824
Gonna put this put there:
Here is the list of all players in baseball history with 200 homers, 2,000 hits and 450 stolen bases: Barry Bonds, Rickey Henderson, Joe Morgan, Paul Molitor, Roberto Alomar and Jimmy Rollins.

That makes me put Rollins ahead of Howard, as far as Phillies go, for HOF consideration. FWIW
It is interesting what you find when you dig into stats like that. It certainly paints him as a HOFer when you put it that way. Of course, I am of the mindset that we have been a little too stringent in the voting. I am saying a little bit elitist, not talking about flat out opening the gates to anyone. There are probably a good 20-25 or more players who had long, successful careers, who put up great numbers, but don't seem to have that wow factor. Would the HOF be worse off with 20-25 more guys who had what amounts to great careers by comparison to 98% of the rest of the field of all-time players? I say no, but "that guy" that has to compare every potential HOF candidate to Hank Aaron for eligibility does!
 

JVHaste

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2015
4,645
232
Vancouver WA
Known Users:
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Gary Sheffield
Manny Ramirez
Sammy Sosa
Andy Pettitte
Alex Rodriguez

Highly Suspected (80% sure):
David Ortiz

50/50 Chance:
Todd Helton
Torii Hunter
Bobby Abreu
Carl Crawford
Ryan Howard
Justin Morneau
Jonathan Papelbon
A.J. Pierzynski

25% Chance:
Billy Wagner
Andruw Jones
Tim Hudson
Joe Nathan

10% Chance:
Prince Fielder
Mark Teixeira
Jeff Kent
Curt Schilling
Scott Rolen
Omar Vizquel
Mark Buehrle
Tim Lincecum
Jimmy Rollins
Jake Peavy
Alright, here's mine. Debating who did drugs is much more fun than debating who is a better player. 😂

Known Users:
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Gary Sheffield
Manny Ramirez
Sammy Sosa
Andy Pettitte
Alex Rodriguez

Guilty Until Proven Guilty (99%):
David Ortiz
Todd Helton
Mark Texiera

Only Kinda Guilty (80%):
Bobby Abreu
Jeff Kent
Justin Morneau
AJ Pierzynski

Guilty On Sundays (50%):
Andruw Jones
Scott Rolen
Jonathan Papelbon
Ryan Howard
Prince Fielder

Semi Unguilty (25%)
Torii Hunter
Curt Schilling
Mark Buehrle
Tim Hudson


Normal Human (under 5%):
Tim Lincecum
Jake Peavy
Omar Vizquel
 

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