Welcome to our community

Be apart of something great, join today!

PWCC shut down on eBay...

gt2590

Super Moderator
Aug 17, 2008
35,764
729
Near Philly
The long suspected "Shill" bidding on PWCC auctions seems to be confirmed as eBay shuts down their store...

 

JoshHamilton

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
12,130
91
Ugh

For my own amusement, can someone look up the % of PWCC/Probstein auctions bid on by ebayer lanciast72?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,362
168
Um, bye.

I’ve never spent a dime with them. It sounds like they are in the process of setting up their own marketplace. Still won’t be getting a dime of my money.
 

Shaggy

Active member
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 6, 2019
301
80
Arizona
I've won a few things from them and the prices didn't go above the market value, but I'm not idiot as I see there have been alot of their sales so far above the latest normal sales on some cards. Its pretty obvious.
 

jmc855

Member
Jan 11, 2013
76
42
RI
Good riddance. They and PSA are dirty. FBI has the goods. shame on eBay for allowing them to stay after teh Blowout investigations of PSA complicit altered cards.
 

DeliciousBacon

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2011
3,444
94
Warwick, RI
Someone on my mail route got a package from PWCC a few weeks ago, and all I could think about was how much they probably got shilled on whatever it was. Granted, they paid $467K for their house, so a few bucks probably wouldn't hurt too much.
 

finestkind

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2008
3,217
344
Boston
Bill Mastro was accused of trimming the Wagner card. He didn't go to jail for that. He was busted and sent to prison for mail fraud in his sports auctions.
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
IRC, there were quite a few members here (originally) who indicated that the reason their (PWCC) sales routinely went above market price was that they had a "dedicated roster of buyers" who soley dealt with PWCC and would, often, overspend just because it was PWCC and that's whom they dealt with and trusted. I've purchased through them occasionally, but never really on anything that I would consider in the ballpark of super rare or unique so I never felt it got to this level, at least not on what I purchased. But, I'm not surprised and I also get the feeling this happens quite regularly with other sellers whom have a big presence in other collectibles.
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
Good riddance. They and PSA are dirty. FBI has the goods. shame on eBay for allowing them to stay after teh Blowout investigations of PSA complicit altered cards.
So, if I understand correctly, the real meat of the issue was, if they did a consignment, they had no real way of knowing that the items were being bid up by whomever consigned it. But, this looks more like they, themselves, got busted doing it. At least I believe that to be the case as only eBay would know for sure if there were matching IP addresses doing the bidding or, if they took a compiled amount of data, and looked into it, they might find some commonalities.
 

craig.gunter.66

New member
Mar 4, 2014
5
14
Bill Mastro was accused of trimming the Wagner card. He didn't go to jail for that. He was busted and sent to prison for mail fraud in his sports auctions.

Interesting…I sold a very rare 1968 Topps Mike McCormick PSA 8 not long ago. It was bought thru eBay and Bill Mastro bought it. He’s still active in the business.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

finestkind

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2008
3,217
344
Boston
That only proves that he's still active in the hobby. Here's an interview that a big time Ebay seller had with Mastro.

 

mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
4,503
831
Someone on my mail route got a package from PWCC a few weeks ago, and all I could think about was how much they probably got shilled on whatever it was. Granted, they paid $467K for their house, so a few bucks probably wouldn't hurt too much.
Where I live, that actually isn't a lot. I do OK, but I wouldn't call myself rich. In 2012 we moved into our current home and the asking price at the time was $400k.

My wife watches those HGTV shows where they are looking at houses for $100K or even $200K and I wonder how nice that would be. Then I realize that the people in those areas are probably making half of what we make in our area. If you really want to feel good (and you don't live there already), watch those reno shows in Detroit or Indy where they are buying up houses for $20-30K! They are beaters mind you, but damn!
 

mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
4,503
831
If there is some evidence that PWCC employed bidders specifically to artificially raise bid prices on listings they had offered, that is one thing, but I really don't see how a consigner would be able to police bids from potential owners on their own items to inflate the prices in an arena like ebay. Unless someone won with an ebay identity, then reached out to the seller and said, "hey, we won our own item, just cancel the transaction". Take a PWCC or Probstein for example, who would often have 10,000s of items listed at a given time. Does anyone honestly think there is a staff of people checking bids to ensure they are legit?

I'm not really sure that I even have that much an issue with an owner bidding up an item of theirs per se, as long as they follow through, meaning no bid retractions if they outbid a high bidder. It's still pretty sleazy though, all the same. The alternative situation is a reserve price that has to be met. Clearly though, a reserve price is a turn off for many bidders these days, as everyone is hoping for a steal and no steals will be had when reserves exist, but it is a measure to protect the seller from absolutely giving away an item if the perfect storm hits and nobody bids! There is also a risk of winning your own item and not getting anything for it because you were trying to squeeze out an extra $5 and ended up winning. I'm sure if done skillfully though and on a large enough scale, shill bidders can up the end prices and force bidders to pay more, but the reality is those bidders were willing to pay that to begin with if they came out on top. Not saying it is a good way to do business, but i'd be willing to accept a sort of regulated shill bid over any other sort of deception common in this hobby like trimming, coloring, altering, counterfeiting, forged signatures, etc.
 

Latest posts

Top