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Scammer AT THE NATIONALS!

Pine Tar

New member
Mar 1, 2009
27,693
Oswego,Illinois
Seems I took the wrong day off of work (Friday) I should have stayed over and gone again on Saturday.......damnit I miss all the fun do to work getting in the way.
 

maxe0213

New member
I'm an industry vet at this point. I know exactly what I am talking about. Comparing this to Haiku is stupid. The two cases aren't related and one had thousands of dollars stolen. This has nothing stolen from anyone.

I am not endorsing what he did. I'm not trying to cover up what he did. I'm simply saying that some of you guys blow things out of proportion for your own sick entertainment.
Because you're a hobby vet you are correct? He's been proven to have tried to scam with this card, admitted to shilling auctions, sending empty boxes. Have you read what happened to the cingrani collection? 8-9 autos with some color were "lost" in a shipment that Mike packaged very poorly.

If this had been pushed under the rug like it seems you have tried to do with it, he could have been going for a Haiku like attack on the hobby. However, he was caught and his name is destroyed which is what needed to happen.

Saying that its not a big deal is completely naive and ignorant and as a admin of this forum you should know better than to respond like you have.
 

Bob Loblaw

New member
Aug 21, 2008
11,211
Bright House Field
I am assuming Chris is being Switzerland for a reason. But to assume this was a "joke" and didn't matter because the card wasn't sold (it was purchased by a BO member who created a new account to get this card off the market) is both naive and pollyanna, neither of which you are, Chris.

This is but one piece of the fraud and deception that pervades this hobby (admittedly, it starts at the Topp with the manufacturers, through the wholesalers, dealers, and eBay resellers, as well as tremendously throughout all grading companies). However, if we can get rid of one shady person who has a history of shady dealings -- this isn't just a 19 year old being stupid (who is an adult in the eyes of the law). This is a young adult with a history of admitted shill bidding, a history of essentially stealing cards in a group submission, there are accusations of replacing non-numbered cards in a group BGS submission, and now this. And when called to the carpet, he laughed it off. First he admitted he did nothing wrong, and lied. Then he said it was a joke, but given the description of the card, the ebay listing, and the fact that he didn't post it on a knowledgable card board all point to it not being a joke. He admitted to changing numerous cards and autographs to the person who blew the whistle on this one particular card.

This person is a cancer in this industry. Perhaps he is a pimple on the ass of this industry, but pimples can get infected and become worse. The hobby is a tiny bit better for having this person out of it. To say he has done nothing wrong and it's being blown out of proportion shows either your ignorance, your willingness to put your head in the sand, or the need to remain neutral and refrain from publicizing anything polarizing. I know you well enough to know that you're not ignorant, and I know the rationale for the latter.

Just don't insult your userbase by saying he did nothing wrong.
 

UMich92

Active member
Sep 18, 2008
1,823
Wow! Just read the whole thread while waiting for my flight. Can't believe I missed this as I was there all day. Didn't see the card or the "discussion". Thanks for the info Jeff.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com
 

cgilmo

Active member
Administrator
Because you're a hobby vet you are correct? He's been proven to have tried to scam with this card, admitted to shilling auctions, sending empty boxes. Have you read what happened to the cingrani collection? 8-9 autos with some color were "lost" in a shipment that Mike packaged very poorly.

If this had been pushed under the rug like it seems you have tried to do with it, he could have been going for a Haiku like attack on the hobby. However, he was caught and his name is destroyed which is what needed to happen.

Saying that its not a big deal is completely naive and ignorant and as a admin of this forum you should know better than to respond like you have.
I didn't push anything under a rug.

I edited nothing. I deleted nothing.
 

Bob Loblaw

New member
Aug 21, 2008
11,211
Bright House Field
Please don't put words in my mouth buddy. I stated you "TRIED" to push it under the rug. Not that you "DID." Yes you did try. you tried to get people to think this is not a big deal when in actuality it is a big deal for this hobby.
Chris doesn't own the rug in question. He can downplay it, but he can't sweep this under a rug as it's already out there.
 

maxe0213

New member
Chris doesn't own the rug in question. He can downplay it, but he can't sweep this under a rug as it's already out there.
I agree. I just think the downplaying was a sad attempt at keeping this away from FCB and its members as to not start drama. However, it needed to be put out there on all forums for everyone to see and realize that a big member in this hobby was in fact a scumbag and did some shady stuff.
 

nappyd

New member
Sep 24, 2012
1,201
Please don't put words in my mouth buddy. I stated you "TRIED" to push it under the rug. Not that you "DID." Yes you did try. you tried to get people to think this is not a big deal when in actuality it is a big deal for this hobby.
Have you even been to his shop? There isn't even a rug to push stuff under.

He's not saying it's not bad, he's saying it's not a big deal. It's a small seller who keeps doing stupid XXXX that ruins the hobby, sure, but it's not a big deal like Haiku's caliber of scam or Upper Deck losing it's licensing rights or Topps having vaporcards on their sell sheets that will be unfulfilled redemptions. Those are big deals.
 

maxe0213

New member
Have you even been to his shop? There isn't even a rug to push stuff under.

He's not saying it's not bad, he's saying it's not a big deal. It's a small seller who keeps doing stupid XXXX that ruins the hobby, sure, but it's not a big deal like Haiku's caliber of scam or Upper Deck losing it's licensing rights or Topps having vaporcards on their sell sheets that will be unfulfilled redemptions. Those are big deals.
Mike is not a "small seller"

He's a pretty big part of the part of the hobby that uses forums like SCF, FCB, and BO. That is why this is a big deal.

Why are you responding for CG when I'm waiting on a response from CG and there's been none? Just curious.
 

matfanofold

Active member
Aug 10, 2008
7,644
I think some here are getting caught up in the fallacy that their opinion must be the right one. To some, any scam (big or small) is on many levels just as bad as anyone else who falls under the umbrella of a scammer. Crack a 8.0 slab and sell raw, fake a GU/patch card, add an inscription, forge an auto, steal from someone in a sale/trade, you are all scumbag scammers and the level of scam matters not. To others, it is simply not as harsh when someone makes a few stupid moves with regards to profiteering off of shady actions as it is when someone is a habitual, large-scale scammer. Both opinions are valid and to think everyone is going to see this the same as everyone else is fruitless.

I may not know Gilmore as well as some/many here, and although I disagree with him/his opinions sometimes, I also believe him to be a level headed fellow. I believe he has more insight to this than most here, and believe he is entitled to his opinion without the need to have people calling him out like he is a facilitator or something. I do not think for a second that Gilmore likes, supports, marginalizes, or encourages the actions of the scammer. But none the less, wielding a pitchfork is something he may not be willing to do over this matter, and to that end I agree. Some foolish, greedy actions were done, and FCB has noted it. If you believe it to be a scarlet letter, something to banish and distress over, well..... that's fine too.


However, I will say that Gilmore using his weight and longevity in the hobby as a badge towards his opinion, as he did earlier in the post, gave the impression that his opinion on the matter should hold more water, be more credible than others. This was not wise in my humble opinion. It came off as arrogant and implied that he 'knows better' then us on how to view this, so our opinion should follow suit with his. It's one thing to voice an opinion, it's another to think your means more than someone else as a blanket statement. This also came off as an endorsement for the said scammer, an attempt to 'sweep it under the rug' as it were. Mind you, I do not believe this was Gilmores intention, just pointing out how it read...
 
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nyc3

New member
Aug 20, 2008
5,305
Will his account be banned here also? There is no need for that timebomb to blow. I see SCF and BO both banned him already.
 

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