Shill bidding is at an all time HIGH!!!

[pujolsmvp2005]

How prevelent is shill bidding on Ebay and can we eliminate it? In a downward economy such as the one we are in right now, is shill bidding more or less prevalent? I ask this because, this is a debate that I have had with another Ebayer and we completely disagree on our answers. I believe, that with the economy in a downward spiral as we are seeing now, sellers have more of a sense of urgency to sell their cards more than ever before for various reasons. However, I have seen that there is a decline in the amount of money that buyers have to spend on cards and memorablilia over the past year. This inverse causes a more of a crisis of shill bidding in my opinion. Anyone who has bought a card in 2007 has taken a hit in the value of the card (what you can get for it right now). So...how is ebay protecting us? Can they protect us? I say NO! There is very little that they can do and there is very little that they are doing. Therefore, I believe that more than 50 percent of sellers are shill bidding there auctions, to squeeze every dollar out of the buyer because if not, the seller is taking a HUGE hit as I did in my last 7 auctions. The card industry is a cut throat industry/hobby and there are more "bad guys" then "good guys" out there as I'm sure all of you can agree therefore I believe that Shill bidding is at an all-time HIGH!!

 

[subject to change]

Cardcop?

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

While certain types of cards are probably more susceptible to shill bidding than others (particularly the types of cards that are bought with the intention to FLIP) I would never have thought half of all sellers were shill bidding.

Although there could be more desperate sellers out there now, I might think there would only be a small increase in shill bidding. Just use a snipe program and you're OK.

 

[HPC]

How prevelent is shill bidding on Ebay and can we eliminate it?

Sorry,

but I find your title and opening sentence very funny

 

[pujolsmvp2005]

I agree, a snipe program does help. So...do you not feel that it is a major concern in the hobby right now? Do you also feel that in this "buyers market", most sellers have not considered or acted on the option of shilling because as we know, the "buy it now/best offer" is not generating the activity or interest that a straight auction does.

 

[pujolsmvp2005]

funny? Not trying to be funny but if you find it funny, I'm glad to humor you :lol:

 

[RL24]

I have noticed suspicious activity myself. First a card sells for way more than it ever should. Then a couple weeks later it is relisted. I am still watching the ended item, so I go check it out. Sometimes it is a (0) user who is NARU'd, but more often it is just a guy with (20) who apparently backed out of deal. wink wink.

 

[braden]

How prevelent is shill bidding on Ebay and can we eliminate it? In a downward economy such as the one we are in right now, is shill bidding more or less prevalent? I ask this because, this is a debate that I have had with another Ebayer and we completely disagree on our answers. I believe, that with the economy in a downward spiral as we are seeing now, sellers have more of a sense of urgency to sell their cards more than ever before for various reasons. However, I have seen that there is a decline in the amount of money that buyers have to spend on cards and memorablilia over the past year. This inverse causes a more of a crisis of shill bidding in my opinion. Anyone who has bought a card in 2007 has taken a hit in the value of the card (what you can get for it right now). So...how is ebay protecting us? Can they protect us? I say NO! There is very little that they can do and there is very little that they are doing. Therefore, I believe that more than 50 percent of sellers are shill bidding there auctions, to squeeze every dollar out of the buyer because if not, the seller is taking a HUGE hit as I did in my last 7 auctions. The card industry is a cut throat industry/hobby and there are more "bad guys" then "good guys" out there as I'm sure all of you can agree therefore I believe that Shill bidding is at an all-time HIGH!!

I see you've been using your Jump to Conclusions mat.

 

[Huffamaniac]

I suggest selling your cards as BIN. Also list them on Collector Revolution.

In my auctions at least I have noticed as increase in offers I am receiving on CR

 

[pujolsmvp2005]

Very good point "huff" but my concern is with the straight auction. If you have inventory that you want to move you use the stright auction. It is like what they call a "mexican standoff" on ebay right now. No one wants to budge....the sellers don't want to take the hit (selling the card for way below what they paid) by listing their item on a straight auction....and the sellers, don't like the "buy it now/ best offer". So, I believe sellers who "NEED" to move their stuff and don't want to take the "hit", are shilling their auctions more and more. I am seeing this first hand. So, my question.....do you put any of the blame on EBAY for not developing a way to expose this and eliminate it?

 

[pujolsmvp2005]

...but I do agree, Collectorrevolution.com is a great way to sell your items in the BIN format

 

[Huffamaniac]

I wish I had a solution to regualr auctions, but i don't

Very good point "huff" but my concern is with the straight auction. If you have inventory that you want to move you use the stright auction. It is like what they call a "mexican standoff" on ebay right now. No one wants to budge....the sellers don't want to take the hit (selling the card for way below what they paid) by listing their item on a straight auction....and the sellers, don't like the "buy it now/ best offer". So, I believe sellers who "NEED" to move their stuff and don't want to take the "hit", are shilling their auctions more and more. I am seeing this first hand. So, my question.....do you put any of the blame on EBAY for not developing a way to expose this and eliminate it?

 

[nyc3]

I wish I had a solution to regualr auctions, but i don't

Very good point "huff" but my concern is with the straight auction. If you have inventory that you want to move you use the stright auction. It is like what they call a "mexican standoff" on ebay right now. No one wants to budge....the sellers don't want to take the hit (selling the card for way below what they paid) by listing their item on a straight auction....and the sellers, don't like the "buy it now/ best offer". So, I believe sellers who "NEED" to move their stuff and don't want to take the "hit", are shilling their auctions more and more. I am seeing this first hand. So, my question.....do you put any of the blame on EBAY for not developing a way to expose this and eliminate it?

Start the auction at the minimum you want? Then you dont have to worry.

 

[Huffamaniac]

EBAY does not care. A shilled auction means more money in their pockets. It is terrible it happens, but I do not beleive EBAY will ever seriously address it

Very good point "huff" but my concern is with the straight auction. If you have inventory that you want to move you use the stright auction. It is like what they call a "mexican standoff" on ebay right now. No one wants to budge....the sellers don't want to take the hit (selling the card for way below what they paid) by listing their item on a straight auction....and the sellers, don't like the "buy it now/ best offer". So, I believe sellers who "NEED" to move their stuff and don't want to take the "hit", are shilling their auctions more and more. I am seeing this first hand. So, my question.....do you put any of the blame on EBAY for not developing a way to expose this and eliminate it?

 

[pujolsmvp2005]

I agree Huff, but do you put any blame on ebay? I don't see how we can. I think 100% of the blame goes towards the seller and his/her integrity, not the integrity of the site.

 

[Huffamaniac]

EBAY should do everything to protect both the buyer and seller. There are many blatant cases of schilling that have been reported and EBAY does nothing. I do blame EBAY some what for this.

I don't think they should police it, but if they receive multiple complaints from the same seller and a pattern has been established, they should do something to the seller to discoverage this behavior.

I agree Huff, but do you put any blame on ebay? I don't see how we can. I think 100% of the blame goes towards the seller and his/her integrity, not the integrity of the site.

 

[pujolsmvp2005]

I agree. There is absolutely NOTHING they can do to prevent it. The reason for this post is to bring to light the theory that in a time where we are in a time of a very bad recession and many people are losing their jobs and homes and everything else, coupled with some of those same people holding thousands of dollars of cards and memorabilia that are worth significantly less now then 1, 2, 5 years ago....I believe we are going to see a big spike in shill bidding. I was hoping to get the opinion of the board and its members as to which side their opinion lies.

 

[rainmanesq]

I don't think shilling's any more prevalent now than it's been in the past. I also think it's pretty easy to detect the shillers + thus, I report them to ebay + if they're not kicked off, I don't bid. I also think your estimate of 50%+ sellers being shiller is grossly overexaggerated. Maybe if you're a casual seller, you can get away w/shilling, but guys like mr.mem (+ myself) who list auctions daily/weekly could never get away w/shilling. Plus, w/large repeat buyer bases, there's really no need to shill.

also, shilling's not exclusive to ebay- major auction houses have had their own shilling scandals. outside of ip tracking + relying on the honesty of people, it's hard to eliminate shilling. too many buyers/sellers whine about shilling yet too few bother to REPORT it.

as for why you took a hit on your last 7 auctions, perhaps it's largely explained by (a) holiday season, (b) tough economy, + (c) OFF season when cards ALWAYS sell for less.

 

[AndruwHRJones]

Ebay doesn't care about shilling. Just like they don't care about idiots selling fake patches and such. They are making money regardless, it does nothing for them to step in and do anything. They are making more money from the sellers who are shilling and faking patches than the possible buyers who may leave ebay because they are not doing anything about it. The changes they made over the last year make it near impossible for any of us to 100% spot shilling, which I think was intentional by ebay.

The bottom line is I don't think they care about the practice and they surely won't be doing anything to stop it anytime soon. We all will continue to purchase things on ebay, so in the end, they lose nothing.

The best you can do is invest in a sniping program and bid what you want to pay.

 

[spahnandsain]

You guys are killing me...Cardcop? and the "jump to conclusions mat".