The Card industry (past and present)

I've been thinking about the card industry today and was wondering if kids still have a place in it.
The reason I ask this is because when I started to collect cards (I was 10 years old) in 1988, I could, with my "kid's allowance" buy a box a cards per month. Nothing fancy, but the cards that were on the market and what kids were collecting.

1989: upperdeck. I remember when these hit the market. I couldn't afford a box on my allowance. I could buy 2 or 3 packs hoping at the time to pull a Griffey.
1990: Leaf, same thing even more expensive. I bought 3 packs which was huge for me and was lucky to get a Thomas RC.

Fastforward: all the 90's inserts and pricing spiking... I left... moved to Europe and stopped collecting. When I returned to collecting, I had a salary and could afford all these new products and cards and boxes and even cases.
Which kid can do that today? VERY few (parents who have the money).

So my question is, is there still room in the industry for kids? Packs are expensive, boxes even more and I'm not even talking about cases.
I've seen awesome collections here on the boards the past few years but none of them belong to "kids"... (aged under 18).
When you want a "key" card on Ebay, once it's a "high profile" player, you've got to spend tons as well.

Anyways, I was just wondering what you all think. I haven't covered all my thoughts on the subject but it's crazy to think the prices we pay today for cards.

Open discussion time as I would love your opinions.
Thanks!
Dom

Kids today will grow up and then become card collectors once they have a large disposable income, duh!

I sell team packs - cards from 1980's -2013 with newer stars, plus single star cards at local minor league stadium on weekends . This will be my seventh year and have a bunch of regular kids buying from me . Most will only have $5.00 to spend at stadium so I must sell cheap . I might make gas money for a week if lucky . But I enjoy doing it even with all the loading and unloading
My high end cards will go on Ebay to help me stay in collecting

Juan Gris said:

Kids today will grow up and then become card collectors once they have a large disposable income, duh! :wink:

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LOL, good one...

On the more serious side of this, it seems that the hobby is no longer focused on kids and very difficult for them to even be a part of it unless they buy simple topps base cards. I find it a shame that kids today don't have as many options as they could all due to price and due to the fact that companies have gone towards the "high end"... ok, capitalism.. MONEY.. mmmm... but I don't think they should forget that kids are also a part of America and they watch sports and want to be able to get that "special" card.

tramers said:

I sell team packs - cards from 1980's -2013 with newer stars, plus single star cards at local minor league stadium on weekends . This will be my seventh year and have a bunch of regular kids buying from me . Most will only have $5.00 to spend at stadium so I must sell cheap . I might make gas money for a week if lucky . But I enjoy doing it even with all the loading and unloading
My high end cards will go on Ebay to help me stay in collecting

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This is great.... it's a good thing there are folks who do this. But I think that card companies should do something as well.
I just feel sorry for the younger generation who see "amazing cards" but they can only dream of owning one because Ebay is now the place to buy them unless you "win the lotto" by pulling it out of a pack.

Oh and remember, at the very beginning, cards were sold through tobacco.
Then came the "gum"... kids were the target.
Then came all the high end stuff and the "gum" generation grew up and had money. It's as if companies have been targeting the 80's generation and kept going with them. What about the new generation?

Maybe I'm just not making sense, and as an adult, I can buy almost what I want... but thinking back to age 10-14, I can't imagine what it would be like today at that age wanting to be a part of the hobby. I would think very frustrating.

Domino, your absolutly correct. Even when there is a young kid into it and able to afford a box they rip it and thumb through the base looking for the "hit" or the "score". Trying to hit it big I guess to sell it for more or whatever. The problem now is these companies charge you for what you "might" pull. The gamble seems to be more of the "high" then the actual cards themselves.

Yanks2151 said:

Domino, your absolutly correct. Even when there is a young kid into it and able to afford a box they rip it and thumb through the base looking for the "hit" or the "score". Trying to hit it big I guess to sell it for more or whatever. The problem now is these companies charge you for what you "might" pull. The gamble seems to be more of the "high" then the actual cards themselves.

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Exactly. It's all about the thrill and no longer about being part of a hobby to trade with friends, complete sets, get that "key" RC.... and it's so darn expensive.
Anyways... indeed todays kids are tomorrow's consumers. But I don't think they should be left out. I don't think companies should think about them as future consumers but as current "want to be" consumers and in some cases, collectors.
Mentality has changed with greed. Such a shame.

Finances do not actually prevent anyone from entering the hobby, if the only entry point is unopened product. There are packs available at every price point. The problem is that the $1.99 base Topps packs a kid can get at Target, which are basically the same perfectly good cards we all grew up loving, pale in comparison on most every point with more expensive sets. That the value of cards are now judged almost entirely by their price in dollars is the sad part, and what keeps kids from really going deep into the hobby. Give a kid new to the hobby a 5000-count box of commons and he'd be ecstatic. Give the same kid a 5000-count box and a Beckett, he'll probably be really bummed out. It's just human nature to want the "better" things and to be unsatisfied with the bottom end things.

Some very good points have been made in this thread. I decided to look into how much prices have changed on base packs of Topps cards and compare the change to a couple of other items people always talk about price increases on, gas and stamps. I based the 2013 price of a pack of Topps on a $20 blaster with 10 packs in it. I hope my math is right, I'm sure someone on her can tell me if I looked at it wrong but here it is in black and white.


As you can see, base Topps has increased at an unbelievable rate compared to the other 2 items. Many factors for this include the additional value add items in forms of inserts and autographs, general price increases in production and distribution, and marketing costs. Although it can't be proven, I have to think that the licensing fees are the greatest driver in the cost increases. In the end though even at the bottom end of the hobby you could say the dramatic price increases have made it much harder for a young person to build a collection. In the hobby area, it's very clear that the dollar has nowhere near the purchasing power it once had from a pack perspective.

smapdi said:

Finances do not actually prevent anyone from entering the hobby, if the only entry point is unopened product. There are packs available at every price point. The problem is that the $1.99 base Topps packs a kid can get at Target, which are basically the same perfectly good cards we all grew up loving, pale in comparison on most every point with more expensive sets. That the value of cards are now judged almost entirely by their price in dollars is the sad part, and what keeps kids from really going deep into the hobby. Give a kid new to the hobby a 5000-count box of commons and he'd be ecstatic. Give the same kid a 5000-count box and a Beckett, he'll probably be really bummed out. It's just human nature to want the "better" things and to be unsatisfied with the bottom end things.

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Very good point and oh so true.

bcubs said:

Some very good points have been made in this thread. I decided to look into how much prices have changed on base packs of Topps cards and compare the change to a couple of other items people always talk about price increases on, gas and stamps. I based the 2013 price of a pack of Topps on a $20 blaster with 10 packs in it. I hope my math is right, I'm sure someone on her can tell me if I looked at it wrong but here it is in black and white.

	1985	2013	$ Change	% Change
Gallon of Gas	1.20	3.26	2.06	171.67%
First Class Stamp	0.20	0.49	0.29	145.00%
Pack of Topps Baseball Cards	0.35	2.00	1.65	471.43%

As you can see, base Topps has increased at an unbelievable rate compared to the other 2 items. Many factors for this include the additional value add items in forms of inserts and autographs, general price increases in production and distribution, and marketing costs. Although it can't be proven, I have to think that the licensing fees are the greatest driver in the cost increases. In the end though even at the bottom end of the hobby you could say the dramatic price increases have made it much harder for a young person to build a collection. In the hobby area, it's very clear that the dollar has nowhere near the purchasing power it once had from a pack perspective.

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That's some nice homework there... and it shows quite a bit.

smapdi said:

Finances do not actually prevent anyone from entering the hobby, if the only entry point is unopened product. There are packs available at every price point. The problem is that the $1.99 base Topps packs a kid can get at Target, which are basically the same perfectly good cards we all grew up loving, pale in comparison on most every point with more expensive sets. That the value of cards are now judged almost entirely by their price in dollars is the sad part, and what keeps kids from really going deep into the hobby. Give a kid new to the hobby a 5000-count box of commons and he'd be ecstatic. Give the same kid a 5000-count box and a Beckett, he'll probably be really bummed out. It's just human nature to want the "better" things and to be unsatisfied with the bottom end things.

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True! And never more so than with kids. As a kid growing up, I was collecting right when UD and Leaf and Stadium Club were being released. I was used to a base card fetching $5 or $10. I think with today's kids, just like in my day, they want to have a good collection of whatever they are actually collecting. Back then, prices were high for premium packs but you could still open a pack and get something that might have been the best card to have at the time. A lack of inserts kept prices down. But something some people forget is that dealers were still charging a crap load of money for older wax packs after they came out because they could and because there might be a $40 base card in one of the packs. I know. Once the cards came out, you got what you could at K-Mart, Target, Walmart, or the gas station and that was it. You weren't finding them cheap after they sold out. But in that limited time, you could still grab some packs and pull some gems. And even when inserts did come along, you could still go to walgreens or eckerds and buy a pack that was $1.49 and pull an insert worth some money at the time. For a 10 or 12 year old, that was awesome. Nothing except quantity of packs busted seperated you from an adult.

But kids have always wanted "the cards to have". The money cards. And now, they cannot pull them as easily from the packs they can afford. Which in their eyes would make their collection suck. And so they gravitate away. That's not even including the fact a lot of kids are straying away from sports collecting as a whole due to lack of interest. Kids are followers for the most part. If their friends aren't doing something, neither are they. As a kid, for some reason you want to impress your peers. Even if you are into something else, there just doesn't seem to be the same thrill. I remember wanting a nintendo and a bunch of ninja turtle stuff because that's what all the kids I grew up with had and were into. Yet they were by far not my favorite things. It also explains why Yughio and Pokemon and Magic are so popular. All their friends play it and collect it and they can still buy a pack at Walmart for something they can afford and still have the ability to pull a card worth a lot of money that everyone wants. And they can easily trade their cards for money or other cards. These CCG's have become the new sportscards for kids.

The other factor, ebay, is never going to help with the mega high end stuff because without ebay, dealers would have a hard time moving every card to people just coming into their shop. Now they can maximize the price to collectors of specific players, all over the world. It seems nothing is cheap. Hell, I've fought with other bidders for cards I didn't think anyone else on earth would want. Whereas, if in a shop, I might have gotten it for less than on ebay because the owner thinks it's junk nobody else wants. But, a savvy kid is also helped by ebay because instead of even opening wax, which is a crapshoot of the highest order no matter your income or age, they can save their money and ask their folks or an older brother or sister or uncle to buy specific cards they want. Sure they'll still have a hell of a time affording the cream of the crop stuff. But they'll have a virtually endless selection and some nice stuff can be had. A lot better than having to walk into a shop and hope they have your players cards and some you actually need. A lot of us are spoiled. You know how hard it was to "player collect" back in the mid 90's when your only cards came from shops and shows? I had a friend who had 325 different Bagwells back in high school and we thought that was insane. Not because 325 itself is an awful lot. But because of how we all knew he had to build his collection. One card at a time through busting wax or through getting lucky at a shop in a city where practically every person and their brother collected the same players (astros) and the chances were slim he'd find anything he needed. This was in 1998 or so and considering what was out at the time, I'm still impressed.

So to answer the op's question, yes there is still room for kids. And while things like ebay can really help and hurt, there just isn't the interest for many reasons. I think more kids like sports in high school when they know it can bring popularity and girls. But I still don't think cards will be on their mind. I feel the CCG's have really pulled the rug out from under the sportscard industry as far as kids are concerned. They are more kid centered and still offer the chance to pull the kinds of cards that used to be but are no longer possible with sports stuff.

It has nothing to do with content, price, or player selection.

In short, to most kids, it's a boring hobby.

TBTwinsFan said:

It has nothing to do with content, price, or player selection.

In short, to most kids, it's a boring hobby.

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I disagree. Otherwise Yughio and Pokemon wouldn't be as popular. Think about it. All the video games out there and kids want to play a CCG? Granted at least you can play with CCG cards while sportscards will sit in a box or binder. But I doubt it's a boredom factor.

predatorkj said:

I disagree. Otherwise Yughio and Pokemon wouldn't be as popular. Think about it. All the video games out there and kids want to play a CCG? Granted at least you can play with CCG cards while sportscards will sit in a box or binder. But I doubt it's a boredom factor.

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Video games are considered the most popular form of entertainment in America. In fact, Pokemon's video game series far out-surpasses the TCG.

TCGs and baseball cards have a lot of major differences, which is why I can see why TCG is more popular than sports cards.

bcubs said:

	1985	2013	$ Change	% Change
Gallon of Gas	1.20	3.26	2.06	171.67%
First Class Stamp	0.20	0.49	0.29	145.00%
Pack of Topps Baseball Cards	0.35	2.00	1.65	471.43%

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Unfortunately you are comparing apples and oranges -- gas and postage prices have been artificially kept low by govt subsidies and other incentives. That's why the PO is going under, and why gas costs about 3x as much as it does here in less incentivized markets (Europe, Asia).

TBTwinsFan said:

It has nothing to do with content, price, or player selection.

In short, to most kids, it's a boring hobby.

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This.

"Kids" have all the money they want to spend and more. Parents buy much more expensive things now than when we were kids.

They just don't want or care about baseball cards.

bobthewondercat77 said:

Unfortunately you are comparing apples and oranges -- gas and postage prices have been artificially kept low by govt subsidies and other incentives. That's why the PO is going under, and why gas costs about 3x as much as it does here in less incentivized markets (Europe, Asia).

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Actually the cost of gas in Europe is a result of the ridiculous amount of tax they put on fuel.

bobthewondercat77 said:

Unfortunately you are comparing apples and oranges -- gas and postage prices have been artificially kept low by govt subsidies and other incentives. That's why the PO is going under, and why gas costs about 3x as much as it does here in less incentivized markets (Europe, Asia).

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An excellent clarification on your part, there are definitely forces in play impacting the valuation of all 3 products. My intention was to illustrate the change in purchasing power of a dollar buying packs vs. other items over the years. Regardless of the reasons for increase, the end result is that the increase has made it cost prohibitive for a higher proportion of people vs. in 1985.

i miss 1985