goobmcnasty
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- Apr 4, 2014
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Defensively, I'd put Pudge ahead of Yadi. Offensively, it isn't even close. Does Pudge get in?
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And I thought Yadi was a future hall of Famer
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Defensively, I'd put Pudge ahead of Yadi. Offensively, it isn't even close. Does Pudge get in?
I freely admit my anti-Cardinals bias, but it doesn't run nearly as deep as my anti-Giants bias. Saying that, I would take Buster Posey over Molina 100 times out of 100. Yadi may be the better defensive catcher, but Posey's more than adequate and is one of the best hitters in the game as well.
Regarding the dearth of catchers in the Hall... wow, I didn't realize how rare it is that they get in. There just aren't really a lot of truly stellar catchers. Maybe that works in Yadi's favor eventually, but I don't think so.
Piazza definitely gets in. Ted Simmons should be there long before Yadi. Pudge is deserving. If Posey continues to produce, he'll be a lock as well.
Regarding the dearth of catchers in the Hall... wow, I didn't realize how rare it is that they get in. There just aren't really a lot of truly stellar catchers. Maybe that works in Yadi's favor eventually, but I don't think so.
Piazza definitely gets in. Ted Simmons should be there long before Yadi. Pudge is deserving. If Posey continues to produce, he'll be a lock as well.
Peter Gammons wrote a nice article on Posada
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/26459328/
[FONT=mlb_primary !important]By Peter Gammons / MLB.com | January 25th, 2012 +
0 COMMENTS
[/FONT]
Jorge Posada is proud, he is tough -- very tough -- and does not forget the hard times of being a 24th-round Draft pick once considered an organizational pawn. Nor does he forget perceived slights, be they pitchers who battled him on pitch selection, whispers that he would never be Joe Girardi handling those great Yankees staffs of the 1996-2000 championships, or those knockdown, drawn-out public spats with A.J. Burnett.It was Posada's pride and his stubbornness that led to him sitting down a game and the necessity of a Brian Cashman in-game news conference, but Posada never would have spent 17 years as a Yankee and earned five World Series rings if he weren't that way; when you once had nothing, no one tells you that you cannot do something. And the twilight is never easy for someone who has been so good and worked so hard to prove and reprove himself.
Posada could have moved on to another team this winter and earned another $3 million to $5 million as a catcher/designated hitter, but he clearly understood how difficult the end can be. He chose to bid adieu, retire as one of those few pure modern Yankees like Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera and Bernie Williams, wrapped in the greatest uniform in sports.
Years from now, depending on the whims of the voters each December, Posada will go into the Hall of Fame in that uniform, like Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey. The voters will marvel at those five rings and seven pennants, and think about all the great pitchers he caught. Go back to Game 4 of the 1999 World Series, when Joe Torre, who'd started Girardi in the first three games against the Braves, started Posada with Roger Clemens going for the clincher, knowing that Posada would be taking over the first-string catching duties the following spring.
From that game through the 2009 season, which included an injury-shortened 2008 in which he played in only 51 games, Posada's average season was .283 with 21 homers and 82 BBIs, with a .386 on-base percentage and .879 OPS. In that decade, the Yankees won two World Series and four pennants. His final game in that run was Game 6 of the World Series, a win over the Phillies that captured his career: three hits by Jeter, started and won by Andy Pettitte, with a five-out save by Mariano Rivera.
In Posada's career, he caught three certain Hall of Famers in Rivera, Clemens and Randy Johnson. He caught others who will get varying degrees of consideration: Mike Mussina, Kevin Brown, Pettitte, CC Sabathia, David Cone.
One cannot overstate the value of a catcher who produces offensively, and while catching those extraordinary pitchers and winning championships, Posada caught more games than all but 23 others, all the while ranking in the following categories among catchers since 1901:
[h=5]PRIME NUMBERS[/h]
How Jorge Posada's career statistics rank among catchers since 1901:
The only catchers who had a higher OPS+ were Mike Piazza, Mickey Cochrane, Dickey, Johnny Bench, Ernie Lombardi, Gabby Hartnett and Berra.
Think about that.
Posada was never Jeter or Alex Rodriguez in terms of buzz, never controversial. He never really was a "star." Posada was a grinder who could hit the critical looper against Pedro Martinez in one of the greatest games he ever experienced. Because he was never Broadway or Page Six material, he may have trouble passing the Cooperstown eye test, but unlike Ted Simmons, Posada will go onto the ballot at a time when most votes are more scrutinized than they were 20 years ago, and someday he will be up on that great podium in Cooperstown thanking many of the same people he thanked during his retirement news conference at Yankee Stadium.
It would be nice if Posada made that speech before Jeter and Rivera are elected to the Hall, because when they touch the plaque handed them by Jane Forbes Clark, Jorge Posada should be in the background, applauding from the stage of fellow Hall of Famers.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/26459328/
[FONT=mlb_primary !important]By Peter Gammons / MLB.com | January 25th, 2012 +
0 COMMENTS
[/FONT]
Jorge Posada is proud, he is tough -- very tough -- and does not forget the hard times of being a 24th-round Draft pick once considered an organizational pawn. Nor does he forget perceived slights, be they pitchers who battled him on pitch selection, whispers that he would never be Joe Girardi handling those great Yankees staffs of the 1996-2000 championships, or those knockdown, drawn-out public spats with A.J. Burnett.It was Posada's pride and his stubbornness that led to him sitting down a game and the necessity of a Brian Cashman in-game news conference, but Posada never would have spent 17 years as a Yankee and earned five World Series rings if he weren't that way; when you once had nothing, no one tells you that you cannot do something. And the twilight is never easy for someone who has been so good and worked so hard to prove and reprove himself.
Posada could have moved on to another team this winter and earned another $3 million to $5 million as a catcher/designated hitter, but he clearly understood how difficult the end can be. He chose to bid adieu, retire as one of those few pure modern Yankees like Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera and Bernie Williams, wrapped in the greatest uniform in sports.
Years from now, depending on the whims of the voters each December, Posada will go into the Hall of Fame in that uniform, like Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey. The voters will marvel at those five rings and seven pennants, and think about all the great pitchers he caught. Go back to Game 4 of the 1999 World Series, when Joe Torre, who'd started Girardi in the first three games against the Braves, started Posada with Roger Clemens going for the clincher, knowing that Posada would be taking over the first-string catching duties the following spring.
From that game through the 2009 season, which included an injury-shortened 2008 in which he played in only 51 games, Posada's average season was .283 with 21 homers and 82 BBIs, with a .386 on-base percentage and .879 OPS. In that decade, the Yankees won two World Series and four pennants. His final game in that run was Game 6 of the World Series, a win over the Phillies that captured his career: three hits by Jeter, started and won by Andy Pettitte, with a five-out save by Mariano Rivera.
In Posada's career, he caught three certain Hall of Famers in Rivera, Clemens and Randy Johnson. He caught others who will get varying degrees of consideration: Mike Mussina, Kevin Brown, Pettitte, CC Sabathia, David Cone.
One cannot overstate the value of a catcher who produces offensively, and while catching those extraordinary pitchers and winning championships, Posada caught more games than all but 23 others, all the while ranking in the following categories among catchers since 1901:
[h=5]PRIME NUMBERS[/h]
| STAT | No. | RANK |
|---|---|---|
| Walks | 936 | 3 |
| Doubles | 379 | 7 |
| OPS | .848 | 6 |
| OBP | .374 | 8 |
| HR | 275 | 8 |
| RBI | 1,065 | 11 |
| OPS+ | 121 | 8 |
How Jorge Posada's career statistics rank among catchers since 1901:
The only catchers who had a higher OPS+ were Mike Piazza, Mickey Cochrane, Dickey, Johnny Bench, Ernie Lombardi, Gabby Hartnett and Berra.
Think about that.
Posada was never Jeter or Alex Rodriguez in terms of buzz, never controversial. He never really was a "star." Posada was a grinder who could hit the critical looper against Pedro Martinez in one of the greatest games he ever experienced. Because he was never Broadway or Page Six material, he may have trouble passing the Cooperstown eye test, but unlike Ted Simmons, Posada will go onto the ballot at a time when most votes are more scrutinized than they were 20 years ago, and someday he will be up on that great podium in Cooperstown thanking many of the same people he thanked during his retirement news conference at Yankee Stadium.
It would be nice if Posada made that speech before Jeter and Rivera are elected to the Hall, because when they touch the plaque handed them by Jane Forbes Clark, Jorge Posada should be in the background, applauding from the stage of fellow Hall of Famers.
RStadlerASU22
Active member
- Jan 2, 2013
- 8,881
- 11
Agreed... Piazza and Pudge were the best IMO for a 10+ year stretch and both should be in.
Ryan
AnthonyCorona
Well-known member
I don't understand y Piazza wasn't a first ballot HOFer
Nate Colbert 17
Active member
I could support Posada in the Hall of Fame, low-end, but still a HOFer. Ted Simmons also merits consideration.
There's another catcher named Ted (Double Duty Radcliffe) that belongs in the HOF as well.
There's another catcher named Ted (Double Duty Radcliffe) that belongs in the HOF as well.
gt2590
Super Moderator
Even though he, and Bagwell, never had any evidence against them the cloud of the steroid era will hurt them in the voting...
Austin
Well-known member
Yeah, it's crazy that Radcliffe is not in the Hall of Fame.
He played catcher and pitcher and was great at both over an incredible 36-year career.
Historians think he had more than 4,000 hits, 400 home runs, won 500 games as a pitcher and had 4,000 strikeouts.
He was also an immensely popular player and an ambassador for the sport after he retired.
He lived to be 103 years old, and it's a shame he lived that long and never was honored as a Hall of Famer.
Seriously, what the hell Hall of Fame voters.
Super Mario
Well-known member
Sadly, it's just the way it is.
I'm not a detractor of steroid guys in the Hall of Fame. It was a part of the game, and those players shouldn't be blacklisted.
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