Will Mcgwire be forgiven now?

abncollectsautos · Oct 27, 2009

Now that Mcgwire has signed on as a coach, will he be forgiven like Arod, Manny, and Papi?

Its almost like Arod was forgiven as soon as he confessed and no one really cares anymore. Papi denied the whole thing and most baseball people didnt really think to many bad things about it. Since his suspension, Manny has been treated like he was the season prior in LA. But for some reason, Big Mac still gets treated like he ruined baseball and should be banned for life.

I have no doubt in my mind Mcgwire, Bonds, and many other super stars used some form of performance enhancing supplement. But if it was not banned by baseball, who are we to judge him or his records.

If he came back, had a press conference and apologized like Arod, would he be treated dearly again? Curious on everyone else's opinions on the matter. By the way, I still think Mcgwire, Bonds, Manny, and Arod deserve to be in the HOF.

nikateen · Oct 27, 2009

Not untill he admits he cheated.

abncollectsautos · Oct 27, 2009

nikateen said:
Not untill he admits he cheated.

I think your probably right.

Big Mac McGwire · Oct 27, 2009

mac knows he is going to have to answer questions. the media will swarm him when spring training starts. im sure he realizes this. I think this was larussa's way of trying to help out one his favorite players before he retires from managing. Like the guy said before, alot of users have been forgiven, he just has to answer the questions that he refused to answer when he appeared in washington.

Super Mario · Oct 27, 2009

Big Mac McGwire said:
mac knows he is going to have to answer questions. the media will swarm him when spring training starts. im sure he realizes this. I think this was larussa's way of trying to help out one his favorite players before he retires from managing. Like the guy said before, alot of users have been forgiven, he just has to answer the questions that he refused to answer when he appeared in washington.

I just don't care. Never did, never will. With any player.

crowhop · Oct 27, 2009

Those who would forgive him, already have.
The ones who would not, never will.

Jeff D · Oct 27, 2009

abncollectsautos said:
I have no doubt in my mind Mcgwire, Bonds, and many other super stars used some form of performance enhancing supplement. But if it was not banned by baseball, who are we to judge him or his records.

I don't know why this is such a popular misconception, but PED's and steroids were most certainly banned by baseball.
Fay Vincent banned all such substances in 1991, shortly after they were declared controlled substances, and illegal.

As mentioned, it's really tough to forgive someone if they don't apologize, or even admit doing something wrong.

gregbara · Oct 27, 2009

Jeff D said:
abncollectsautos said:

I have no doubt in my mind Mcgwire, Bonds, and many other super stars used some form of performance enhancing supplement. But if it was not banned by baseball, who are we to judge him or his records.

Click to expand...

I don't know why this is such a popular misconception, but PED's and steroids were most certainly banned by baseball.
Fay Vincent banned all such substances in 1991, shortly after they were declared controlled substances, and illegal.

Excellent point here, I'm not sure why no one knows this.

I give big Mac props, he did what he did, admitted to nothing, never tested for anything, and stuck by his guns regardless of what everyone says. He may be a liar but its never been proven, test wise.

nikateen · Oct 27, 2009

I have no ill will towards McGwire or anyone who took steroids. I could really careless. What bothers me is that they lie about it. If McGwire would just admit he took them, I think a weight would be lifted off his shoulders and people will start embracing him again. I really believe that.

muskiesfan · Oct 27, 2009

Jeff D said:
abncollectsautos said:

I have no doubt in my mind Mcgwire, Bonds, and many other super stars used some form of performance enhancing supplement. But if it was not banned by baseball, who are we to judge him or his records.

Click to expand...

I don't know why this is such a popular misconception, but PED's and steroids were most certainly banned by baseball.
Fay Vincent banned all such substances in 1991, shortly after they were declared controlled substances, and illegal.

I have made that exact post a thousand times before. Since there was no testing in place (because the Player's Union fought it tooth and nail), people like to act like it wasn't a "real" rule or an enforced rule. It was a rule during the time that steroids really started to boom. The players didn't want to be tested and Selig eventually came in and just turned a blind eye to it all because of $$$$.

shanks25 · Oct 27, 2009

He was my first hero as a kid and will always be my favorite player of all time.

I really think it would help if he answered questions to the media. America is very forgiving. I don't wear blinders and think he's innocent but I believe he and Bonds are two completely different classes of people. Everywhere McGwire went, people loved him......fans, teammates, coaches, etc. The exact opposite is true of Bonds. I hate that the two are always lumped in the same sentence.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me......I'll always be a Mac homer......

The_ReverendAct2 · Oct 27, 2009

here is a great hypothetical: if there were no testing available, what percentage of mlb would be doing ped's? i say over 80%. they all want an edge to get paid and we would still be prospecting.

Mr.Whipple · Oct 27, 2009

Jeff D said:
abncollectsautos said:

I have no doubt in my mind Mcgwire, Bonds, and many other super stars used some form of performance enhancing supplement. But if it was not banned by baseball, who are we to judge him or his records.

Click to expand...

I don't know why this is such a popular misconception, but PED's and steroids were most certainly banned by baseball.
Fay Vincent banned all such substances in 1991, shortly after they were declared controlled substances, and illegal.

As mentioned, it's really tough to forgive someone if they don't apologize, or even admit doing something wrong.

Vincent sent a memo too the teams, Only to save face because of the FDA's adding of them to the lists of CDS...Selig reissued the memo in 97 also...Both times it lacked conviction....If they couldnt test, What was the point of it?....Vincent didnt care too be honest, Or he would of got testing of players done...It took Selig 5 years to get testing done...McGwire can say he was sorry while crying on prime time tv...People will or wont forgive him...I wanna see the list of 100-125 players who all failed the tests...That will be the true sign of what happens to the sport and hobby for me...

uniquebaseballcards · Oct 27, 2009

I think McGwire would do himself and baseball a huge service if he were to withdraw himself from HOF eligibility - if that were possible.

blanning71 · Oct 27, 2009

So if he comes out and admits to using......does that get him in trouble with the federal government for lying to Congress? I have always kinda liked McGwire, especially with the excitement that he and Sosa created in 98. I hope it all works out for him.

fengzhang · Oct 27, 2009

Jeff D said:
abncollectsautos said:

I have no doubt in my mind Mcgwire, Bonds, and many other super stars used some form of performance enhancing supplement. But if it was not banned by baseball, who are we to judge him or his records.

Click to expand...

I don't know why this is such a popular misconception, but PED's and steroids were most certainly banned by baseball.
Fay Vincent banned all such substances in 1991, shortly after they were declared controlled substances, and illegal.

As mentioned, it's really tough to forgive someone if they don't apologize, or even admit doing something wrong.

Because the "ban" had no teeth. If you issue a ban but with no subsequent punishment, how can you expect athletes (who are competitive by nature) to not use PED's? Jordan look extra steps because he could get away with it. Maddux threw pitches 2 inches outside because he could strikes called on them. Athletes will use every advantage available to them. Look at the hard stance the Olympics has had to take in order to stem the use of steroids.

Sorry, but this is the fault of baseball for not having a defined steroid policy. Instead, Selig is more intent on throwing certain players (particularly the unpopular ones like Bonds) under a bus to deflect attention away from the negligence of MLB and its complicity in fostering steroid use.

scotty21690 · Oct 27, 2009

crowhop said:
Those who would forgive him, already have.
The ones who would not, never will.

Could it be....?!

A crowhop sighting!!

Howdy Keith.

shanks25 · Oct 27, 2009

blanning71 said:
So if he comes out and admits to using......does that get him in trouble with the federal government for lying to Congress? I have always kinda liked McGwire, especially with the excitement that he and Sosa created in 98. I hope it all works out for him.

I don't think so Brian. Because he never told Congress that he did or did not use PEDs. He just said (I'm sure on the advice of his attorney) that he was not there to talk about the past. If he admitted to Congress that he did take them, they could ask them who he took them with / who he knew that took them, etc. If he told Congress that he did not......and then comes out and says now that he did, he would face perjury.

Sounds like sound advice from his attorney, although he lost his reputation in the process.........

abncollectsautos · Oct 29, 2009

So, they were banned by Vincent with no punishment. If I am a pro athlete and know something is "frowned upon" but I will not get into trouble for using it, Im using it. It is that simple. I bet 90% of the world would.

There is already one member of the HOF who was accused of taking roids, Rickey Henderson. Canseco called him out from their A's days, and Canseco has been right all along anyway. I personnaly think Mac, Bonds, Palmeiro, Arod, and Manny get in. But they will have to work on it.

I just think its crap that the headlines on AOL.com read "disgraced slugger" when speaking of McGwire. But they still treat Arod and Manny like superstars.

mredsox89 · Oct 29, 2009

fengzhang said:
Jeff D said:

abncollectsautos said:

I have no doubt in my mind Mcgwire, Bonds, and many other super stars used some form of performance enhancing supplement. But if it was not banned by baseball, who are we to judge him or his records.

Click to expand...

I don't know why this is such a popular misconception, but PED's and steroids were most certainly banned by baseball.
Fay Vincent banned all such substances in 1991, shortly after they were declared controlled substances, and illegal.

As mentioned, it's really tough to forgive someone if they don't apologize, or even admit doing something wrong.

Click to expand...

Because the "ban" had no teeth. If you issue a ban but with no subsequent punishment, how can you expect athletes (who are competitive by nature) to not use PED's? Jordan look extra steps because he could get away with it. Maddux threw pitches 2 inches outside because he could strikes called on them. Athletes will use every advantage available to them. Look at the hard stance the Olympics has had to take in order to stem the use of steroids.

Sorry, but this is the fault of baseball for not having a defined steroid policy. Instead, Selig is more intent on throwing certain players (particularly the unpopular ones like Bonds) under a bus to deflect attention away from the negligence of MLB and its complicity in fostering steroid use.

Yes, it was MLB's fault, but they were banned by the federal government. It was only really enforced when the government went after the major dealers, but it is and has been a federal crime to possess steroids

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