Tobacco card: Hoffman, Contentnea Cigarettes

sharpcorners · Aug 25, 2010

Hi all, first post here. I'm trying to find the value of a tobacco card I bought in the early 90s.

You can see in my scan below that it's in terrible condition, and I have no idea if it's an actual autograph on the back or if someone just wrote the name. Hoping someone here can help. Thanks.

cgilmo · Aug 25, 2010

Chris Levy can probably help you out.

fkw · Aug 25, 2010

The set is from 1910 and is known as T209-1, or sometimes T209 first series. There are only 16 cards in this set.

Even though all of the checklists dont list the players first names for these set, the player is known only as H.H. Hoffman, and not much is know about him at all...

Here is a link to his page (you can ad "throws Left Handed" to stats)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hoffma002h--

The T209-1 cards are fairly scarce overall but suffer demand wise because they picture only regional minor leaguers qwith most not making the Majors. Advanced collectors usually collect the T209-1 set.
High book is $1000 in NRMT, but these often dont bring book value.

The condition of your is atually average for this series, many are beat up like that. Ive only owned 8-10 of them and 3-4 were Hoffman, and all were in the same shape as yours.
I used to pick them up on eBay 10 years ago for under $30 in that condition, but now Id estimate yours in the $100-$150 range.
If autograph is authentic (hard to prove as Im sure there arent many out there to compare it to), it may bring a bit more $$.

PS. Another set put out by Contentnea in 1910 is known as T209-2 and has a similar ad on back but the fronts have real B&W pictures, instead of the color drawing like T209-1

Guest · Aug 25, 2010

It was very common for collectors of the era to make notations on the reverse of the card indicating the player's name. I've also seen the position, team, etc. written on these types of cards.

Even in 1909 it was not uncommon for fans to seek out autographs of their favorite players and signed examples of T206s are more plentiful than would be expected. In the majority of the examples I have seen the player had signed on the front of the card, but that is merely information and cannot be used to prove, or disprove, the legitimacy of the autograph.

Given that the player never amounted to much it would be extremely difficult to determine the authenticity of the autograph.

If you have an abundance of free time, it might be interesting to play the at home version of "The History Detectives" on PBS and determine information on the player. Attempt to (politely and respectfully) contact any living ancestors and see if they own any documents belonging to the player, and then comparative analysis can be obtained. However, that would take some time and a certain degree of luck and charm to add a comparitively small value to the card.

sharpcorners · Aug 26, 2010

Thanks everyone for the information. I recently had a collector in town tell me the card is probably worth $5 to $10, which I felt was a bit low. He didn't want the card, so I didn't think he was trying to scam me. Chris, do you think fkw's estimate of $100 to $150 is more accurate?

I may do some digging to see if I can find out more about this mysterious H.H. Hoffman fellow.

fkw · Aug 26, 2010

The guy quoted you a value similar to what a T206 card would be worth in low grade like yours. Both T206 and T209-1 have a similar look to them. Most casual collectors dont know what a T209 is.

FWIW, Id give you $100 for it. The last Hoffman I had I sold for $95 a few years back, and it was uglier than yours.

Guest · Aug 26, 2010

Graded I think $100-$150 is a fair appraisal of the card. Raw always attracts a bit less attention in the eBay generation.

$100 is a fair price for the card if you were selling. You wouldn't be getting top dollar, but the buyer wouldn't be getting a steal. Pretty much where both parties would want to be.

Personally, I'd rather have the mystery of the name on the back than the card. But, then again I have a humanities background and worked at a museum in my first post-graduate job doing research.

sharpcorners · Aug 26, 2010

Thanks for the wonderful responses, guys. It's great to finally have some additional information about this card after almost 20 years.

leon · Aug 26, 2010

Frank (FKW) and Chris are correct. I have sold 2-3 Hoffmans almost just like that, in the last 2-3 yrs. He is probably the most common player from the set. I don't know why but he definitely pops up more than any of the others. I have one in my partial set too. The prices quoted were about right, imho. It is a neat set to collect!!

Zan · Aug 26, 2010

leon said:
Frank (FKW) and Chris are correct. I have sold 2-3 Hoffmans almost just like that, in the last 2-3 yrs. He is probably the most common player from the set. I don't know why but he definitely pops up more than any of the others. I have one in my partial set too. The prices quoted were about right, imho. It is a neat set to collect!!

Leon it's good to see you are on here as well. Good vintage community lurking in the shadows

fkw · Aug 26, 2010

The interesting thing about that card is the person that wrote Hoffman's name on back in vintage ink..... used "H Hoffman" and not his real first name whatever it was. All the info I could find on internet list him as H. Hoffman or H.H. Hoffman.
Maybe thats all he went by.... H Hoffman?? :?:

Guest · Aug 26, 2010

In a situation like this, you might considering contacting historical societies in the Raleigh area to see if there is any information regarding that team. There might also be historical societies set up for the various leagues of the period, however, as I have been having a busy week I have not had my time to do any thurrough checking on this.
There isn't a whole lot of info to be had on "one and done" minor league players who don't pan out, but all it takes is a scorecard or program from 1909 and the window gets a little bigger. That's why a historical society might be a good starting point. I know here in Jacksonville there's a historical society dedicated to our old ***** league team, and they weren't even in business that long.

Zan · Aug 26, 2010

Regardless it's a really cool card.

jay1065 · Aug 26, 2010

fkw said:
Maybe thats all he went by.... H Hoffman?? :?:

Izzy, a.k.a Harry Hoffman (also a lefty,) played in 154 games for Providence during the 1909 season, 137 in 1910, and 188 games for Oakland in 1911. Any chance Izzy played a stint with Raleigh late in the 1909 season, as well as the early stages of the 1910 season?

jbhofmann · Sep 3, 2010

Interesting read.

Thanks.

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