Devil's advocate for Topps

I've been reading a lot about how Topps is to blame for the latest products. Here are some things to consider:

Production: Bowman came out a few months ago and was a smashing hit. Stras mania hit and prices went sky high. There was much more demand than supply. So Topps uses presells to judge the demand for the following products. They ramped up production on TC/BC to meet consumer demand. Topps can's foresee the future and can only hope that the presells are a good indication of how much product to make. Making too little of a product is bad for business.

Exclusivity: Not only is this new for baseball collectors, but it's new for Topps. There are less products on the shelves and less competition. If Topps had the same production runs as 2009, then there would be a shortage of overall baseball cards. More product had to be made in 2010 to help fill the void of UD. But Topps didn't know how to gauge how much more to make, so they used presells as a test.

Strasburg: Stras going down to injury is what ultimately hurt the products. When he was playing, more people came into the hobby to grab his stuff. This is something that Topps had no control over.

Hobby shop: Topps quickly realized that the ramped up production could hurt Hobby shops. So they created a hobby only wrapper redemption program. With TC, they sweetened the deal by adding auto's. It looks with BC, it will be the USA Buybacks. So Topps is trying to bring more value to the product.

Is it really a fail? Only time will tell. Stras making a comeback will obviously help. There could be other prospects in the set that have a break out year. Or even with the ramped up production, it may turn out far less than what was produced in 2009 (Topps and UD combined). The product could dry up faster as other players make their name with less product lines to choose from.

Ultimately Topps produced the amount of cards that the market was initially demanding for. Hopefully the hobby learned it's lesson by this and will be a bit more cautious on pre-orders. I'm not saying Topps is completely faultless. Not to mention their QC has no doubt hurt some of these products.

You can argue all day about how adding autographs helped their product, but you'll hear the counter all night that it watered down the product.

edit: But I do agree, Topps had some things on their plate they haven't had before, but it doesn't totally absolve them from blame.

Sports Fan Stoner said:

You can argue all day about how adding autographs helped their product, but you'll hear the counter all night that it watered down the product.

edit: But I do agree, Topps had some things on their plate they haven't had before, but it doesn't totally absolve them from blame.

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It was a lose-lose situation.If they put 5000 Heyward and Stanton autographs in the product then people would be bitching also.I do not envy the position they are in because collectors are so fickle now a days.

Its a line I don't know if I would want to toe right now. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Topps has screwed up but what do you do to keep all of these collectors happy? You have to increase supply. Especially when youre the ONLY provider fo MLB licensed cards.

blanning71 said:

Its a line I don't know if I would want to toe right now. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Topps has screwed up but what do you do to keep all of these collectors happy? You have to increase supply. Especially when youre the ONLY provider fo MLB licensed cards.

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Spot on. Exclusivity means controlling the market, but it also means being the exclusive target of complaints in a hobby that loves to make them.

Exclusivity: Not only is this new for baseball collectors, but it's new for Topps.

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You're conveniently forgetting 1956-1959, 1961-1962, and 1964-1980

JoshHamilton said:

Exclusivity: Not only is this new for baseball collectors, but it's new for Topps.

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You're conveniently forgetting 1956-1959, 1961-1962, and 1964-1980

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The card market back then, is different from now.

They still have to get used to there print runs even if they have been in the same situation already.

blanning71 said:

Its a line I don't know if I would want to toe right now. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Topps has screwed up but what do you do to keep all of these collectors happy? You have to increase supply. Especially when youre the ONLY provider fo MLB licensed cards.

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Yes. But Topps didn't screw up, rather some people (unintentionally?) screwed themselves because they simply expected Topps to do something it was not required to do. Topps doesn't need a 'devil's advocate' as the title of this thread implies.

Topps isn't responsible for anyone other than themselves and the ones that gave them their licenses. I'd bet the *major* distributors already know all of this and factor it into their business models and decision-making.

Besides a major issue some have, "overproduction", can be a good thing - it means more people can enjoy cards and learn about the game. Plus the parallels are still low numbered/numbered the same as they have always been.

Let me clarify. When I said Topps "screwed up" I meant that they have made some decisions on products that were less than stellar this year. They had to do it due to lack of availability from other mfgs. People reacted in a less than positive manner towards these products. And when they ramped up production on Topps Chrome and Bowman Chrome, it hurt the investors in these products. I agree that it helps the hobby because it puts more cards out there for more people. Just goes to show you how this hobby has evolved from a collectors hobby into an investors hobby.

blanning71 said:

Let me clarify. When I said Topps "screwed up" I meant that they have made some decisions on products that were less than stellar this year. They had to do it due to lack of availability from other mfgs. People reacted in a less than positive manner towards these products. And when they ramped up production on Topps Chrome and Bowman Chrome, it hurt the investors in these products. I agree that it helps the hobby because it puts more cards out there for more people. Just goes to show you how this hobby has evolved from a collectors hobby into an investors hobby.

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I don't think the hobby has evolved into an 'investor's hobby', but perhaps some aspects have. If anything, I foresee Topps, and any other potential manufacturers continually trying to limit the hobby from becoming an 'investor's hobby'. Why the heck would Topps or anyone else want to answer to a bunch of investors or 'middle men' when collectors will buy almost anything they produce?

But, yes, certainly the landscape has changed, the hobby has greater direction and focus now with one manufacturer which is a good thing. If Topps should screw up, they're responsible and they'll loose their license...Topps does have someone to answer to and its not collectors or investors.

blanning71 said:

Let me clarify. When I said Topps "screwed up" I meant that they have made some decisions on products that were less than stellar this year. They had to do it due to lack of availability from other mfgs. People reacted in a less than positive manner towards these products. And when they ramped up production on Topps Chrome and Bowman Chrome, it hurt the investors in these products. I agree that it helps the hobby because it puts more cards out there for more people. Just goes to show you how this hobby has evolved from a collectors hobby into an investors hobby.

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Too F'n Bad.

invest in sportscards, and lose money in the end.

Signed,
Las Vegas

People want certain things out of a product and Topps produced more cards to fulfill that demand. What's the issue?

Topps is not there to help people make more money than they spend on their products. Even if that was the case, I would fully expect Topps to then stop selling boxes and sell singles instead since it makes more money. Don't get upset with a company because you couldn't make profit off of it on the secondary market within two days of opening the product.

I agree Eric. Thats why I'm not worried about flipping what I pull immediately to recoup what I would spend on cards. I tried it for a while and I found out that it just doesn't work. Unless you're extremely lucky or you buy in on certain products that are more conducive to a solid return, you'll get burned every time. I tend to collect stuff and then if I need to move it later, I will dump it.

And the hobby has evolved into a big man's hobby where you see more selling for profit reasons than people looking to "collect". Just look at our box break forums. How many times have you seen people come on and announce results of a break and before anyone can ask if the cards are for trade, that the OP says, "BTW, everything is on ebay or it will be listed soon". People are looking for the flip. No longer are they holding cards for collections unless its a super duper card for their collection. While it isn't solely an investors hobby, in the last 10-15 years, it has certainly progressed in that direction.

Sorry, DP.

blanning71 said:

And the hobby has evolved into a big man's hobby where you see more selling for profit reasons than people looking to "collect". Just look at our box break forums. How many times have you seen people come on and announce results of a break and before anyone can ask if the cards are for trade, that the OP says, "BTW, everything is on ebay or it will be listed soon". People are looking for the flip. No longer are they holding cards for collections unless its a super duper card for their collection. While it isn't solely an investors hobby, in the last 10-15 years, it has certainly progressed in that direction.

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I think I know what you're trying to say but saying "Big man's hobby" made me laugh, it makes people who collect or buy cards seem like unsophisticated people! We're all 'big boys' now

uniquebaseballcards said:

blanning71 said:

And the hobby has evolved into a big man's hobby where you see more selling for profit reasons than people looking to "collect". Just look at our box break forums. How many times have you seen people come on and announce results of a break and before anyone can ask if the cards are for trade, that the OP says, "BTW, everything is on ebay or it will be listed soon". People are looking for the flip. No longer are they holding cards for collections unless its a super duper card for their collection. While it isn't solely an investors hobby, in the last 10-15 years, it has certainly progressed in that direction.

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I think I know what you're trying to say but saying "Big man's hobby" made me laugh, it makes people who collect or buy cards seem like unsophisticated people! We're all 'big boys' now

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I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I feel that the mfg's have focused in recent years on the people that spend the big money on cards rather than the kids. Demand of higher valued products has driven the market away from kids and right towards deeper pockets of the working class of America, namely adults with loads more money to spend than many kids could dream of spending. Does that make more sense? If not, I give up. I hope you understand! LOL

blanning71 said:

uniquebaseballcards said:

blanning71 said:

And the hobby has evolved into a big man's hobby where you see more selling for profit reasons than people looking to "collect". Just look at our box break forums. How many times have you seen people come on and announce results of a break and before anyone can ask if the cards are for trade, that the OP says, "BTW, everything is on ebay or it will be listed soon". People are looking for the flip. No longer are they holding cards for collections unless its a super duper card for their collection. While it isn't solely an investors hobby, in the last 10-15 years, it has certainly progressed in that direction.

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I think I know what you're trying to say but saying "Big man's hobby" made me laugh, it makes people who collect or buy cards seem like unsophisticated people! We're all 'big boys' now

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I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I feel that the mfg's have focused in recent years on the people that spend the big money on cards rather than the kids. Demand of higher valued products has driven the market away from kids and right towards deeper pockets of the working class of America, namely adults with loads more money to spend than many kids could dream of spending. Does that make more sense? If not, I give up. I hope you understand! LOL

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I am one of those kids who can't afford to bust anything

I rely on junk 2 dollar autos and .10 cent base cards to fill my collection.

blanning71 said:

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I feel that the mfg's have focused in recent years on the people that spend the big money on cards rather than the kids. Demand of higher valued products has driven the market away from kids and right towards deeper pockets of the working class of America, namely adults with loads more money to spend than many kids could dream of spending. Does that make more sense? If not, I give up. I hope you understand! LOL

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Yes, I think so.

Personally, I'd say the hobby has become too complex, has people in it attempting to push it in different directions that may not be practical, and lost sight of its 'purpose'.

So what's the purpose of a piece of cardboard with a man's picture on it? Do people here take the hobby a little too seriously? If you started a thread entitled 'what is the purpose of a baseball card' what do you think folks would say?

Ah, fun stuff.

uniquebaseballcards said:

blanning71 said:

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I feel that the mfg's have focused in recent years on the people that spend the big money on cards rather than the kids. Demand of higher valued products has driven the market away from kids and right towards deeper pockets of the working class of America, namely adults with loads more money to spend than many kids could dream of spending. Does that make more sense? If not, I give up. I hope you understand! LOL

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Yes, I think so.

Personally, I'd say the hobby has become too complex, has people in it attempting to push it in different directions that may not be practical, and lost sight of its 'purpose'.

So what's the purpose of a piece of cardboard with a man's picture on it? Do people here take the hobby a little too seriously? If you started a thread entitled 'what is the purpose of a baseball card' what do you think folks would say?

Ah, fun stuff.

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THIS is what Topps is TRYING to return to.

We wouldn't have enough terabytes of RAM to hold the amount of responses that would pour in from a thread like that.