Is there a more useless term in our hobby than......

......"book value"? If someone's trade or sale thread even mentions BV, i just hit the back button, because if BV holds relevance to you then I don't think your feet are planted in reality and I doubt we'll ever work out a deal. Am I alone in this? Where does Beckett get these values? They're simply absurd. I (seriously) think they're in bed with Topps and they intentionally inflate values of cards so that collectors can see that the garbage "hit" they pulled from their $80 box "books" $60, even when they would struggle to get $10 for it in the real world.

Thoughts?

I use ebay value for cards that are worth say 300 dollars, but are you going to look up every auction if I am
selling you a box of GU cards? BV has it's place.

Kevin

Nothing is more useless than other "hobbyists" complaining about other parts of the hobby. Everything has its place including MOJO, L@@K, RARE, BV, SV Personal Value, Personal Collection, Super Collector, ROFLMAO.

To answer the title question...yes. MOJO

Fandruw25 said:

To answer the title question...yes. MOJO

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Another good one, but I think it's more annoying than useless

Its not surprising that BV isn't going to be good for volatile cards: really rare cards or cards of unproven, young players. Another factor in all of this is that a small number of buyers, even one or two, can create volatility by running up the value of a set or player for a period of time or by selling all at once. Of course there's the cards of the player who suddenly exceeds expectations, but his value doesn't usually stay up for long.

Many things cause volatility but understanding how volatility relates to a card can help make BV a useful base.

I wonder if people who collect other things complain about their hobby price guides as well. Think someone who collects records or Hummell figurines or old cars sits around and completely dismisses the idea of a price guide? Is it really good for the hobby to have card values based solely on SV? Congratulations, 99.9% of your collection is now worth a dime or a quarter, since you can find almost anything in crap boxes at shows.

It's fun when you like 12 looking up the book value of a card to see what it's valued at.


But when I was trading, and someone wanted to go by book value, it just wasn't worth the trouble.


I'm not going to go back and fourth with someone for minutes, hours or days just to make a trade even as far as 'book value' goes. I don't care to trade in the other person's favor if there's a card I really want. I don't really care about the price or value of a card, I just want what I want and what I think is cool. But there are some people who go freaking balls out there who think everything has to be EQUAL.

more people use book for value than ebay. FACT!!! i know several people who will buy on ebay (low) and price at book (high) for shows and trade nights. then they negotiate off said price to an acceptable value for both parties. i personally dont see the point of backing out of a trade because of book value.

its funny to hear these arguments over and over because i know dealers and collectors who say why would i sell my cards at ebay prices when i can get more at shows? in my opinion there must be a retail price set via primary outlet or you just have a bunch of dudes running around all willie nillie pricing stuff off of their best guesses. just like you see stores setting retail values on movies, clothing, shoes, etc... you can get all of those cheaper on ebay too.

cards and that beautiful piece of machinery in your avatar have much in common. the book is used as a source of gathering information for both. there are active markets that will tell you the real time value of your car/card but if you choose to hold on to either of them long enough you will find the right ass for the seat. in both cases if you live and die by it you will get burnt. yet the book is a marvelous source of information.

in the long run you can use ebay, beckett, some guy at a gas stations guess, whatever you want but your card is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

not sure if that was a rant, ramble, divine intervention but i dont recall typing much of it.

Fandruw25 said:

To answer the title question...yes. MOJO

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+1

I always think about Austin Powers and his MOJO and cards together.... that's nasty. I don't get that happy with a nice pull (even though I stopped buying packs years ago).

"Pack fresh"

notjomommasclint said:

cards and that beautiful piece of machinery in your avatar have much in common. the book is used as a source of gathering information for both. there are active markets that will tell you the real time value of your car/card but if you choose to hold on to either of them long enough you will find the right ass for the seat. in both cases if you live and die by it you will get burnt. yet the book is a marvelous source of information.

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That's a great reference I could have used. If Kelley Blue Book listed my car as being worth $75,000 then their relevance would have been gone years ago, yet Beckett does something similar and they're seen as an acceptable guide, in some circles, to base card values on.

To me a card is worth what somebody is gonna pay for it, if i'm buying of ebay I set a price on what i'll pay for it and won't go higher, if I lose the card then so be it, when I sell a card all my auctions start out 50-99 cents and they go from their.

just my 2 cents.

roundtree34[b said:

]To me a card is worth what somebody is gonna pay for it[/b], if i'm buying of ebay I set a price on what i'll pay for it and won't go higher, if I lose the card then so be it, when I sell a card all my auctions start out 50-99 cents and they go from their.

just my 2 cents.

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In no way shape or form is this directed at anyone.


IMO, THIS is the most useless term in our hobby. I'll give an example which makes this statement stupid. If I put a card up, say a card that sells on eBay consistanly for 50 dollars up at .99 and let it run on 7 day auction and it gets only 25 dollars. It dosent mean this card is worth 25 dollars. It means AT THAT TIME (maybe it went off at a bad time or maybe I spelled something wrong in the title.) it went for 25 and obviously that's not what the card is WORTH. This can go either way for a card that sells for more then normal or less. Something isn't worth what it sells for one time, too many people get caught up on it's worth what someone is willing to pay. What if i list somthing 7 day auction and the one person who wants that card the most dosent see it? There is all sorts of diffrent senarios that contradict that statment.

I was as suprised as anyone to see how much mojo was used in the hobby.

As far as bv goes, there are no shortage of people that still look up cards in the guide and will continue to do so. I just let people collect the way that they want to collect and let them enjoy the hobby.

I hate book value. It's useless to trade a $50 bv card that sells $65 for a $50 bv vard that sells $10. Sv is the only way I trade and I think more people are starting to do the same now. Personal value is pretty dumb if you ask me though..

gr5 said:

roundtree34[b said:

]To me a card is worth what somebody is gonna pay for it[/b], if i'm buying of ebay I set a price on what i'll pay for it and won't go higher, if I lose the card then so be it, when I sell a card all my auctions start out 50-99 cents and they go from their.

just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

In no way shape or form is this directed at anyone.


IMO, THIS is the most useless term in our hobby. I'll give an example which makes this statement stupid. If I put a card up, say a card that sells on eBay consistanly for 50 dollars up at .99 and let it run on 7 day auction and it gets only 25 dollars. It dosent mean this card is worth 25 dollars. It means AT THAT TIME (maybe it went off at a bad time or maybe I spelled something wrong in the title.) it went for 25 and obviously that's not what the card is WORTH. This can go either way for a card that sells for more then normal or less. Something isn't worth what it sells for one time, too many people get caught up on it's worth what someone is willing to pay. What if i list somthing 7 day auction and the one person who wants that card the most dosent see it? There is all sorts of diffrent senarios that contradict that statment.

Click to expand...

if your card sells for $25 (without seller error) on the market your card is worth $25. you cannot make the assumption that the card is worth more because the last five sold higher or the right buyer didnt see it. your card could be the start of a downward trend (player hurt), victim of external factors (market flooded), or buyers pulling away from the market (big buyer loses his job). its not about what the other cards with the exact same attributes are worth but what cash value is re-cooped from your card.

notjomommasclint said:

gr5 said:

roundtree34[b said:

]To me a card is worth what somebody is gonna pay for it[/b], if i'm buying of ebay I set a price on what i'll pay for it and won't go higher, if I lose the card then so be it, when I sell a card all my auctions start out 50-99 cents and they go from their.

just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

In no way shape or form is this directed at anyone.


IMO, THIS is the most useless term in our hobby. I'll give an example which makes this statement stupid. If I put a card up, say a card that sells on eBay consistanly for 50 dollars up at .99 and let it run on 7 day auction and it gets only 25 dollars. It dosent mean this card is worth 25 dollars. It means AT THAT TIME (maybe it went off at a bad time or maybe I spelled something wrong in the title.) it went for 25 and obviously that's not what the card is WORTH. This can go either way for a card that sells for more then normal or less. Something isn't worth what it sells for one time, too many people get caught up on it's worth what someone is willing to pay. What if i list somthing 7 day auction and the one person who wants that card the most dosent see it? There is all sorts of diffrent senarios that contradict that statment.

Click to expand...

if your card sells for $25 (without seller error) on the market your card is worth $25. you cannot make the assumption that the card is worth more because the last five sold higher or the right buyer didnt see it. your card could be the start of a downward trend (player hurt), victim of external factors (market flooded), or buyers pulling away from the market (big buyer loses his job). its not about what the other cards with the exact same attributes are worth but what cash value is re-cooped from your card.

Click to expand...

Why can't you make that assumption? So basically what your saying is there is no such thing as a steal? Here's a example of what I'm saying, take Sam Bradford. His contenders autos sell at 200 ALMOST every time, if one ends at say 150 after 3 go in the same night at 200. It does not mean that card is worth 140. The point im making is there are a ton of cards that go for less then they should on eBay. Those are called steals/good buys not market value. People get that confused way too often.

What exactly is "what someone is willing to pay"? On ebay auctions, all you're seeing is the highest amount that the under bidder placed. Nobody has any idea as to what the winning bidder was willing to pay. I've bid on cards with my max bid (most I was willing to pay) being $50-$75 over the realized price. So is the value of the card what my max bid was or what the highest bid of the under bidder was?

I think (and I'm guessing) that too many people use ebay as their sole source of "value" which in turn would be just as bad as saying that book value is awful. They all have their place in the hobby and used together, can give you a pretty useful idea as to what "value" the card is. Then again, Beckett never claims in their guide (<-----key word there) that their values are the be all that ends all. I typically use it as a starting point and go from there. Additionally, I've seen plenty of cards sell for higher than Beckett's listed values and many in the vintage world.

gr5 said:

notjomommasclint said:

gr5 said:

roundtree34[b said:

]To me a card is worth what somebody is gonna pay for it[/b], if i'm buying of ebay I set a price on what i'll pay for it and won't go higher, if I lose the card then so be it, when I sell a card all my auctions start out 50-99 cents and they go from their.

just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

In no way shape or form is this directed at anyone.


IMO, THIS is the most useless term in our hobby. I'll give an example which makes this statement stupid. If I put a card up, say a card that sells on eBay consistanly for 50 dollars up at .99 and let it run on 7 day auction and it gets only 25 dollars. It dosent mean this card is worth 25 dollars. It means AT THAT TIME (maybe it went off at a bad time or maybe I spelled something wrong in the title.) it went for 25 and obviously that's not what the card is WORTH. This can go either way for a card that sells for more then normal or less. Something isn't worth what it sells for one time, too many people get caught up on it's worth what someone is willing to pay. What if i list somthing 7 day auction and the one person who wants that card the most dosent see it? There is all sorts of diffrent senarios that contradict that statment.

Click to expand...

if your card sells for $25 (without seller error) on the market your card is worth $25. you cannot make the assumption that the card is worth more because the last five sold higher or the right buyer didnt see it. your card could be the start of a downward trend (player hurt), victim of external factors (market flooded), or buyers pulling away from the market (big buyer loses his job). its not about what the other cards with the exact same attributes are worth but what cash value is re-cooped from your card.

Click to expand...

Why can't you make that assumption? So basically what your saying is there is no such thing as a steal? Here's a example of what I'm saying, take Sam Bradford. His contenders autos sell at 200 ALMOST every time, if one ends at say 150 after 3 go in the same night at 200. It does not mean that card is worth 140. The point im making is there are a ton of cards that go for less then they should on eBay. Those are called steals/good buys not market value. People get that confused way too often.

Click to expand...

how can you steal something on the open market? there are flukes sure... and there are good buys... but that card isnt worth more just because you bought it. its also not worth less because you bought it. there are factors outside of the card itself that weigh on every purchase made. im not saying there isnt money to be made i am saying that the price your card brings is the price your card has. its not a realized profit or a loss until you sell it. then the price of the card adjusts accordingly.