Fake PSA Slabs...interesting little "find" in the mail

[200lbhockeyplayer]

Makes you wonder. Like I have said before, grading has it's upside for sure. But it's also attracted a lot of pests now hasn't it.

The only "pests" in this case are either PSA or the manufacturer of the slabs.

I've heard of multiple instances where people have been sent PSA stickers for items that PSA has never seen, then PSA will update the database.

This certainly shouldn't, but clearly could, happen with graded slabs.

 

[fkw]

I have received cards packed the same way, using the (PSA) slabs instead of cardboard. Many people especially some well known vintage PreWar collectors HATE slabbed cards and will crack all they buy (hundreds). This may be a similar instance. I have cracked many PSA slabs and some pop open fairly easy with almost no sign of being used.

 

[jcmint]

nothing involving psa surprises me anymore. those cases are by far the easiest to crack out and forge.

Remember the wiwag scandal its like they learned nothing

 

[TNP777]

nothing involving psa surprises me anymore. those cases are by far the easiest to crack out and forge.

Remember the wiwag scandal its like they learned nothing

the mere mention of WIWAG in a thread over there results in the instant deletion of the thread, and possibly a perma-ban. It's like their software has a screaming alarm that is instantly activated if the term shows up.

 

[jcmint]

the mere mention of WIWAG in a thread over there results in the instant deletion of the thread, and possibly a perma-ban. It's like their software has a screaming alarm that is instantly activated if the term shows up.

Its for good reason they are thoroughly embarrassed and for good reason. They never did nothing about fixing the slab problem and it shows.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

Its for good reason they are thoroughly embarrassed and for good reason. They never did nothing about fixing the slab problem and it shows.

You'd think it would be fairly easy to keep the same size, shape and same slab locking system but just with better technology to inhibit the duplication and faking...but it's tough to make a business case for improving anything within grading. No industry gets paid more to do less than grading and authenticating. I still think it's the greatest scam in a hobby full of scams and schemers.

People with such regular vision being paid to judge something as if they were higher beings.

 

[MansGame]

the mere mention of WIWAG in a thread over there results in the instant deletion of the thread, and possibly a perma-ban. It's like their software has a screaming alarm that is instantly activated if the term shows up.

Maybe it's just me but I'm not familiar with the scam

 

[morgoth]

Maybe it's just me but I'm not familiar with the scam

Well I was screwed by it so here it goes.

WIWAG was out of CA and was two brothers I believe. They had a legit auction house going for years. In fact my first PSA graded card I ever bought was from them. They were almost pre Ebay or right around Ebay time.

Story goes is they went to PSA to drop off a order and saw that there was a package for delivery sitting outside PSA from their holder supplier. They took the package, found a supplier in China that made the sonic wielder and boom they were in the grading business.

What they would do is go out and buy the highest grade cards they could find for example a super nice PSA 8 1959 Mickey Mantle. They would then go out and find pretty nice PSA 6's or 7's of the same card. They would pop out the PSA 8 Mickey Mantle, take the tag from that holder, pop in their PSA 6 or PSA 7 mantle into a stolen holder, put in the legit flip from the PSA 8 Mantle and wield it shut. Viola a new PSA 8 Mantle. They would then send the Mantle back in for a regrade and once it came back as a PSA 8, they would do it all over again.

They targeted Barry Bonds RC's, Jordan RC's and other "newer" rcs of the time. I got a bad 58 Clemente PSA 9, 1957 Mays PSA 8 and PSA 10 1986 Fleer Update Bonds from those guys.

PSA figured it out somehow, well I think people started to trace back alot of cards to WIWAG, such as PSA 9's with back creases. PSA was paying for their "mistakes" and caught them eventually.

They never released a list of all cards WIWAG graded and their cert numbers. I am sure in the hobbby there are WIWAG cards floating around daily on ebay. If you see a super ugly PSA 8 1950's star card and can't figure out how it get the grade it did, just say WIWAG.

 

[matfanofold]

Well I was screwed by it so here it goes.

WIWAG was out of CA and was two brothers I believe. They had a legit auction house going for years. In fact my first PSA graded card I ever bought was from them. They were almost pre Ebay or right around Ebay time.

Story goes is they went to PSA to drop off a order and saw that there was a package for delivery sitting outside PSA from their holder supplier. They took the package, found a supplier in China that made the sonic wielder and boom they were in the grading business.

What they would do is go out and buy the highest grade cards they could find for example a super nice PSA 8 1959 Mickey Mantle. They would then go out and find pretty nice PSA 6's or 7's of the same card. They would pop out the PSA 8 Mickey Mantle, take the tag from that holder, pop in their PSA 6 or PSA 7 mantle into a stolen holder, put in the legit flip from the PSA 8 Mantle and wield it shut. Viola a new PSA 8 Mantle. They would then send the Mantle back in for a regrade and once it came back as a PSA 8, they would do it all over again.

They targeted Barry Bonds RC's, Jordan RC's and other "newer" rcs of the time. I got a bad 58 Clemente PSA 9, 1957 Mays PSA 8 and PSA 10 1986 Fleer Update Bonds from those guys.

PSA figured it out somehow, well I think people started to trace back alot of cards to WIWAG, such as PSA 9's with back creases. PSA was paying for their "mistakes" and caught them eventually.

They never released a list of all cards WIWAG graded and their cert numbers. I am sure in the hobbby there are WIWAG cards floating around daily on ebay. If you see a super ugly PSA 8 1950's star card and can't figure out how it get the grade it did, just say WIWAG.

This is just one reason why that anyone with half a brain uses the ancient rule of thumb "Buy the card, not the grade". Of course there is something to be said for a secondary opinion, expecially when it potentially adds value to your collectables. But it should not discount your own opinion and certinly never override it all together.

 

[Sean_C]

If I remember correctly, they were busted by someone over on the PSA boards who tracked their fraud through serial #'d 1998-99 SP Authentic Basketball cards.

Well I was screwed by it so here it goes.

WIWAG was out of CA and was two brothers I believe. They had a legit auction house going for years. In fact my first PSA graded card I ever bought was from them. They were almost pre Ebay or right around Ebay time.

Story goes is they went to PSA to drop off a order and saw that there was a package for delivery sitting outside PSA from their holder supplier. They took the package, found a supplier in China that made the sonic wielder and boom they were in the grading business.

What they would do is go out and buy the highest grade cards they could find for example a super nice PSA 8 1959 Mickey Mantle. They would then go out and find pretty nice PSA 6's or 7's of the same card. They would pop out the PSA 8 Mickey Mantle, take the tag from that holder, pop in their PSA 6 or PSA 7 mantle into a stolen holder, put in the legit flip from the PSA 8 Mantle and wield it shut. Viola a new PSA 8 Mantle. They would then send the Mantle back in for a regrade and once it came back as a PSA 8, they would do it all over again.

They targeted Barry Bonds RC's, Jordan RC's and other "newer" rcs of the time. I got a bad 58 Clemente PSA 9, 1957 Mays PSA 8 and PSA 10 1986 Fleer Update Bonds from those guys.

PSA figured it out somehow, well I think people started to trace back alot of cards to WIWAG, such as PSA 9's with back creases. PSA was paying for their "mistakes" and caught them eventually.

They never released a list of all cards WIWAG graded and their cert numbers. I am sure in the hobbby there are WIWAG cards floating around daily on ebay. If you see a super ugly PSA 8 1950's star card and can't figure out how it get the grade it did, just say WIWAG.

 

[Sean_C]

I'd certainly say it's a big deal. If it were a cracked holder I would understand, but if it's "smooth", then something is certainly off. Have you reached out to PSA to see what they say? I'd talk to them before I talked to the auction house.

Sean, I was waiting for you to chime in, as I think this is a far bigger thing than the responses show. These are two fresh halves, with all four "nodes" in place where they join together. It's truly a fresh, unused set. Not good.

 

[MansGame]

Well I was screwed by it so here it goes.

WIWAG was out of CA and was two brothers I believe. They had a legit auction house going for years. In fact my first PSA graded card I ever bought was from them. They were almost pre Ebay or right around Ebay time.

Story goes is they went to PSA to drop off a order and saw that there was a package for delivery sitting outside PSA from their holder supplier. They took the package, found a supplier in China that made the sonic wielder and boom they were in the grading business.

What they would do is go out and buy the highest grade cards they could find for example a super nice PSA 8 1959 Mickey Mantle. They would then go out and find pretty nice PSA 6's or 7's of the same card. They would pop out the PSA 8 Mickey Mantle, take the tag from that holder, pop in their PSA 6 or PSA 7 mantle into a stolen holder, put in the legit flip from the PSA 8 Mantle and wield it shut. Viola a new PSA 8 Mantle. They would then send the Mantle back in for a regrade and once it came back as a PSA 8, they would do it all over again.

They targeted Barry Bonds RC's, Jordan RC's and other "newer" rcs of the time. I got a bad 58 Clemente PSA 9, 1957 Mays PSA 8 and PSA 10 1986 Fleer Update Bonds from those guys.

PSA figured it out somehow, well I think people started to trace back alot of cards to WIWAG, such as PSA 9's with back creases. PSA was paying for their "mistakes" and caught them eventually.

They never released a list of all cards WIWAG graded and their cert numbers. I am sure in the hobbby there are WIWAG cards floating around daily on ebay. If you see a super ugly PSA 8 1950's star card and can't figure out how it get the grade it did, just say WIWAG.

Wow. Talk about a scam, damn.

 

[Calripkenjrcollector]

Wow. Talk about a scam, damn.

Yup! Just bad all around. I have some PSA's too. Double damn....

 

[morgoth]

I mostly collected vintage at the time so my history with WIWAG was on that side. I believe most of their fraud was in the newer card market with hot RC's grading 10. The part that pissed people off was that PSA never released the cards and certs of cards that may be affected. You had to give them your certs and they would tell you if there was an issue. Also if you weren't on their site you could have easily missed the tiny blurb they had on it.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Very interesting. So no signs at all of them being broken/cut open? I just can't see this guy having any ill intentions if he's using these things to protect cards that he's mailing. I can't figure it out

 

[jbhofmann]

Very interesting. So no signs at all of them being broken/cut open? I just can't see this guy having any ill intentions if he's using these things to protect cards that he's mailing. I can't figure it out

It'd be like if Egypt was giving out souvenir pyramids made of enriched Uranium. Sure they might not know what to do with them, but if those Libyans ever got ahold of some....

 

[predatorkj]

It'd be like if Egypt was giving out souvenir pyramids made of enriched Uranium. Sure they might not know what to do with them, but if those Libyans ever got ahold of some....

Back to the future? Really?


In any case...my problem is while PSA has done little to make damn sure their product isn't something that can be tampered with, there are still people out there who will always find a way. You know what I mean? That's the problem. I don't like that. The grading aspect just gives them more fuel. Any time there is easy money to be made, scammers will be found en masse. That's just how it goes. Hell...half the time, I'm just looking for a card to be authentic and in decent shape if I do buy it graded. Now that's out the window too. I'm not interested in 10's. Problem is, like others have said before, if it's gradeable, you'd have to question why it isn't already graded.

 

[predatorkj]

The only "pests" in this case are either PSA or the manufacturer of the slabs.

I've heard of multiple instances where people have been sent PSA stickers for items that PSA has never seen, then PSA will update the database.

This certainly shouldn't, but clearly could, happen with graded slabs.

You mean for authenticated autographs? If so, that really scares the hell out of me. Why on earth would or could a company think that was a good thing?

 

[jcmint]

I actually got a call from the fbi because I was in wiwags database for buying cards. Man was I pissed. I got reimbursed for my purchases. They were doing big business on ebay. Mostly sold hof graded rookies from 50's to early 80's.

 

[JOEMLM]

thank you for sharing this info and pics
as i have stated for the longest time, many auction houses are up to no good
they sell far to many bogus cards that 'seem' to graded but are not, often they reuse the same number over and over again
not to mention cases with clear signs of tampering
even heritage sells more fake junk now than ever before
at one time noone would believe it, until i made my PSA about them and then they remove more items from one auction then they have in the previous 5 auctions combined
coaches corner and all their ilk are still in business
now you just need to tell us who sent this to you so we can watch them moe closely and examine the junk they sell