A-Roid

[hive17]

Seeing the turds that Miami and Houston spread on the field makes me love the Brewers' owner (Mark A.) More and more every day.

Milwaukee and Minnesota are the small-market teams doing it right. They are doing what they do to win at baseball, not business (although as Attanasio has proven, the former helps the latter).

 

[sportscardtheory]

If the Stro's have a better record than any other team, that team, or those teams, have a lot of explaining to do.

 

[Therion]

The Astros will not have a better record than any other team in baseball. I'm a homer for Houston and we will have moments of brilliance this season, but we will have the well deserved #1 draft pick again.

 

[jerry72]

Why not, exactly? These owners are businesspeople before they are fans. So the LA and New York franchises can spend 200m+ on contracts each year and make a huge profit, but the owners of smaller clubs shouldn't profit at all?

Put it this way: who makes more money, the Steinbrenners, or the dude who owns the Astros? You now want the league to dictate that the Astros owner must profit less than he currently does? I get why fans make this argument, but it makes no sense to me from a business point of view.

The Business Of Baseball 2012 - Forbes

 

[ThoseBackPages]

even Miami?

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

The Business Of Baseball 2012 - Forbes

Thanks for the link, it's quite educational. Looks like the Astros are indeed at the low end of the revenue scale (which should surprise no one), but that they are gonna move up soon upon signing a cable deal. Astros fans may not suffer for too long.

 

[vwnut13]

Thanks for the link, it's quite educational. Looks like the Astros are indeed at the low end of the revenue scale (which should surprise no one), but that they are gonna move up soon upon signing a cable deal. Astros fans may not suffer for too long.

Here are the 2013 Operating Incomes (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) directly from Forbes.


Cubs: $32.1m
Orioles: $30.1m
Padres: $29.9m
Nationals: $28.4m
Athletics: $27.5m
Pirates: $26.8m
Astros: $24.7m
Red Sox: $23.9m
Indians: $22.9
White Sox: $22.9m
Reds: $20.9m
Cardinals: $19.9m
Rockies: $18.7m
Giants: $17.6m
Royals: $16.3m
Mariners: $12.9m
Braves: $12.4m
Twins: $10.8m
Rays: $10.0m
Brewers: $9.0m
Diamondbacks: $7.6m
Dodgers: $3.2m
Yankees: $1.4m
Phillies: $0.6m
Tigers: -$0.4m
Mets: -$2.4m
Blue Jays: -$4.8m
Marlins: -$7.1m
Rangers: -$8.7m
Angels: -$12.9m

MLB Team Values: The Business Of Baseball - Full List - Forbes


As far as I know, these numbers do not include money from TV contacts. But the Astro's are going to have $35m less in player contracts, and a new TV deal for next year. They should be moving even further up that list!





Here is an article from 2001.

The Yankees paid $26.5 million in revenue sharing, the most of the 30 teams, cutting their operating profit to $14.3 million on revenue of $242 million.

MLB: We Lost $519M Last Year - ABC News



And here's another nice one from 2009 Article.

"Change is needed and that is reflected by the fact that over a billion dollars have been paid to seven chronically uncompetitive teams, five of whom have had baseball’s highest operating profits,"[John] Henry responded in an e-mail. "Who, except these teams, can think this is a good idea?"

Sox owner wants to overhaul MLB's revenue sharing system - Extra Bases - Red Sox blog

 

[nappyd]

Or they could, Ya know, bring in owners who focus on ownership's main revenue stream being derived from fielding a competitive team instead of focusing on baseball as a source of family entertainment and coasting off the revenue sharing agreement...


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[zach]

The owners would never approve of it.

Which leads to people talking contraction, which then fuels arguements and outrage from fans who don't want to see their continually underspending and underproducing team go bye bye for whatever reason

What about an overspending and underproducing team....That hurts even more. When you spend more, there is an expectation that you will win.

 

[All The Hype]

All of this and the new owner has doubled ticket prices. We are very unhappy Astros fans. I will be going to very few games this year.

This is what is saddest about this whole situation in my opinion. They put no money into the team whatsoever and then expect fans to pay double to come see a garbage ballclub that is already destined for last place and possibly could contend for one of the worst records in baseball history, considering they just moved into American League and into a tough division.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Here are the 2013 Operating Incomes (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) directly from Forbes.


Cubs: $32.1m
Orioles: $30.1m
Padres: $29.9m
Nationals: $28.4m
Athletics: $27.5m
Pirates: $26.8m
Astros: $24.7m
Red Sox: $23.9m
Indians: $22.9
White Sox: $22.9m
Reds: $20.9m
Cardinals: $19.9m
Rockies: $18.7m
Giants: $17.6m
Royals: $16.3m
Mariners: $12.9m
Braves: $12.4m
Twins: $10.8m
Rays: $10.0m
Brewers: $9.0m
Diamondbacks: $7.6m
Dodgers: $3.2m
Yankees: $1.4m
Phillies: $0.6m
Tigers: -$0.4m
Mets: -$2.4m
Blue Jays: -$4.8m
Marlins: -$7.1m
Rangers: -$8.7m
Angels: -$12.9m

Take a look at (or cut and paste, because I can't figure a good way to do so on an iPad) the column next to that one that covers revenue. That one includes all incomes, as far as I can tell. Nobody thinks the Yankees are making 1.4 million a year.

 

[predatorkj]

I see what the astros are doing. I don't blame them. I blame Drayton for not starting it sooner. He depleted our farm system to bare bones. When the astros were doing really good, we always had a handful of very good players and we complemented them with pickups like Carlos Beltran, Andy Petitte, Clemens, Jeff Kent and the like. We also had a few prospects come up and produce as well. What Drayton did was push it to the max and totally killed our farm system. So enevitably, when we couldn't afford some of those high priced players we signed, we had to let them move on. Then guys like Bagwell and Biggio start retiring. Some of our guys who were our prospects and came up and produced like Oswalt, Ensberg, Everrett, Taveras, etc. either floundered and fell off or they moved on to other teams. We then started trying to plug those holes with very mediocre players we overpaid. All the while we still aren't drafting worth a crap. Then we call up the last few remaining worthwhile prospects, Pence and Towles, and they don't do jack like Towles. Or in the case of Pence, he was somebody who should have stayed but this rebuild was going to take a while so the astros set him free getting more place fillers in the short term. Then guys like Berkman just decide to give up. We get rid of him and he ends up winning it all with the Cardinals. We finally find someone stupid enough to want Carlos Lee. Bourn has been long gone.

Now we are left with our best player being Altuve. And now we enter the Crane era. I'd say give the man a chance. About the only thing he has done I don't like is increase ticket prices. That IMO is the dumbest move. How the hell can you take a product that has been subpar for years and increase the price for it? I mean, where exactly down the line did that start seeming like a good idea? And the uniform changes. UHHHH...they aren't new. I don't care if you tweek the H a little or add orange and yellow to the star instead of just orange. They're not new. Even the Colts rip off isn't new. Every other astros uniform has changed the look drastically. These new ones are recycled. At least I love the look.

But we have had a decent draft pick in Springer. I'm not too high on Correa. But I'll give him a chance. We have Altuve. Norris is ok. And we got Carter who I was happy to hear about. We are rebuilding. It will take a while and we have to give it time. No choice. Once they find a few decent guys through trades, signings, and the drafts, then we will be able to start picking up big time free agents and the like. But honestly, what's the point in have one or two really good players that cost a boatload of money and then still finishing last place?

This is where I'm at. I still don't understand the ticket price increase though. And yes they will get a tv deal signed. Oh, wait, Comcast Xfinity is already showing their stuff as well as the Rockets. They are trying to strong arm every other cable provider into paying extra to carry this channel which will also, should they pick the channel up, cost you more as a fan should you wish to add it to your package.

 

[Therion]

Don't get me wrong. I support rebuilding. I don't support gouging fans and not even giving the appearance of trying to be moderately competitive.

 

[predatorkj]

Don't get me wrong. I support rebuilding. I don't support gouging fans and not even giving the appearance of trying to be moderately competitive.

They can't be competitive for a while. You know that. But yes, the prices are a big mystery. Not sure who the hell thought that was a good idea. Uniform changes that aren't really new. Stuff like that I don't understand.

 

[bongo870]

I don't think money means anything. Just look at the 2001 world series. Yankees got beat by a team that paid there players 1/3 of what the Yankees pay.

 

[predatorkj]

I don't think money means anything. Just look at the 2001 world series. Yankees got beat by a team that paid there players 1/3 of what the Yankees pay.

Ok. And yet had players like Luis Gonzalez, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, etc. The Astros have no where near any recognizable stars. Altuve and Pena are the closest thing.

 

[bongo870]

Ok. And yet had players like Luis Gonzalez, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, etc. The Astros have no where near any recognizable stars. Altuve and Pena are the closest thing.

you never know. maybe they will click as a team and rock. You see alot of these teams that "buy" there way through and get all these huge stars but they seem to play for themselfs and not with the team and the team doesnt work or win. Astros may work good with these guys as a team and do very well... you dont knw....

 

[predatorkj]

you never know. maybe they will click as a team and rock. You see alot of these teams that "buy" there way through and get all these huge stars but they seem to play for themselfs and not with the team and the team doesnt work or win. Astros may work good with these guys as a team and do very well... you dont knw....

I actually think they won't lose 100 games this season. I think they'll do better than last season. But they won't be good for a while.

 

[NY Tony]

Take a look at (or cut and paste, because I can't figure a good way to do so on an iPad) the column next to that one that covers revenue. That one includes all incomes, as far as I can tell. Nobody thinks the Yankees are making 1.4 million a year.

How can the 2013 earnings be published when the 2013 season hasn't started yet?

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

How can the 2013 earnings be published when the 2013 season hasn't started yet?

Hadn't noticed that vw posted 2013 numbers. I'm looking at 2012 numbers here

MLB Team Values: The Business Of Baseball - Forbes

There is quite a big gap in revenue from top to bottom. That is what people need to remember when they call for a salary floor. This is big business owned by business people, not fans; profits aren't to be trifled with.