Shorted 15 autos in a Topps Chrome case - now what?

[Dilferules]

The answer of "life's not always fair so deal with it ", is a poor excuse to let something fly that should not.

So as Topps, what would you do? When you start giving out great replacements and then more and more and more claims keep coming in that people were shorted autos, and there is absolutely zero way to know who is telling the truth and who is a liar trying to scam you? What should we realistically expect Topps to do, as a business?

Certainly they should tighten up production processes if this is a problem, but nothing is 100% perfect and there will me a mistake here and there. And as long as there is the potential for mistakes, there is the potential for somebody to lie to rip you off because they don't like what they got in their case or they are just completely greedy a-holes.

Oh but yeah, life is not always fair, and you do need to learn to deal with it. We have to pay more for products because the store loses money from shoplifting and has to make it up somewhere. It's a hassle to get an insurance payout when you deserve it because some people try to scam the system. We all pay higher taxes to support a military, police force, and prison system because bad people exist in the world. We get crappy replacement cards because some people are liars. Our lives are all affected a bit every day because some jerks ruined it for the rest of us. It's not just a Topps issue.

The average 'duped' customer should not be punished for Topps assuming that everyone is a scumbag liar. If Topps is bold enough to state odds & post guarantees (that they obviously deflower time and time again) then they should be held responsible to ensure these odds and guarantees are being met. Simply saying "he could be lying so send him all junk" (as some have alluded to) is inexcusable. If they have zero way to know if someone is being had or not, then they have zero way of knowing if their stated odds and guarantees are being met or not. Either way, Topps needs to be held responsible. If it were me, I would package up the whole damn lot, replacement cards and all, and send them back to Topps as a parting gift. Fortunately this will never happen to me as I vowed to never buy a Topps card again months back, not new or old, so if I am going to be screwed at least it will not be by Topps.

Topps has zero way of knowing, correct. So they could assume everybody is a liar and say screw off, no replacements. Or they could be gullible fools and believe everybody is telling the truth, and send out sweet gold refractor autos to make up for emotional distress and the lost profit from selling cards a couple of weeks later. It looks like they've taken the middle route of sending the bare minimum that the person claims they are owed based on box guarantees. The guarantee in Chrome is 2 autos per box, no guarantee of refractors or good players, just stated odds. Yeah it sucks because he probably would have received better cards in those boxes, but the scammers have ruined it for the honest people. There's no way for Topps to tell the difference.

I was never looking for the moon and stars, and I resent being painted as a greedy scam artist by a few posters. I feel my rationale of the size of the mistake and the loss in value due to the time lapse was legit - Topps clearly neither agreed nor cared. All I got was 15 crap autographs, each sent with no protection inside a tiny manilla envelope and bulk shipped in a bubble mailer.

I think I have every right to be disappointed, and I think the vast majority of you here would feel the same in my shoes....

Greg

You are right, you have a right to feel disappointed, and I would be as well if I were in your shoes. But people need to be able to see this from both the perspective of the buyer and the producer. Too often people are quick to grab a pitchfork without giving both sides of an issue some serious thought, and seeing how things should be in a perfect world while ignoring the real, extremely imperfect world we live in.

 

[predatorkj]

So as Topps, what would you do? When you start giving out great replacements and then more and more and more claims keep coming in that people were shorted autos, and there is absolutely zero way to know who is telling the truth and who is a liar trying to scam you? What should we realistically expect Topps to do, as a business?

Certainly they should tighten up production processes if this is a problem, but nothing is 100% perfect and there will me a mistake here and there. And as long as there is the potential for mistakes, there is the potential for somebody to lie to rip you off because they don't like what they got in their case or they are just completely greedy a-holes.

Oh but yeah, life is not always fair, and you do need to learn to deal with it. We have to pay more for products because the store loses money from shoplifting and has to make it up somewhere. It's a hassle to get an insurance payout when you deserve it because some people try to scam the system. We all pay higher taxes to support a military, police force, and prison system because bad people exist in the world. We get crappy replacement cards because some people are liars. Our lives are all affected a bit every day because some jerks ruined it for the rest of us. It's not just a Topps issue.



Topps has zero way of knowing, correct. So they could assume everybody is a liar and say screw off, no replacements. Or they could be gullible fools and believe everybody is telling the truth, and send out sweet gold refractor autos to make up for emotional distress and the lost profit from selling cards a couple of weeks later. It looks like they've taken the middle route of sending the bare minimum that the person claims they are owed based on box guarantees. The guarantee in Chrome is 2 autos per box, no guarantee of refractors or good players, just stated odds. Yeah it sucks because he probably would have received better cards in those boxes, but the scammers have ruined it for the honest people. There's no way for Topps to tell the difference.



You are right, you have a right to feel disappointed, and I would be as well if I were in your shoes. But people need to be able to see this from both the perspective of the buyer and the producer. Too often people are quick to grab a pitchfork without giving both sides of an issue some serious thought, and seeing how things should be in a perfect world while ignoring the real, extremely imperfect world we live in.

Oh, trust me my friend. I do deal with it. But I sure as hell don't let people pull crap and then let them just say oh well. I hold people responsible for their mistakes. Just as I am held responsible for mine. You go anywhere and get a screwed up product, they give you a new one. They get your burger wrong at Burger King, they take it back no questions asked and give you another one. And half the time they let you keep the one they gave you even though you won't eat it. Do they lose money on stuff like that? Yep. Granted it's $7 versus what? $700? $800? Which means what? If you're selling higher dollar products, you'd better damn well make sure you watch what you're doing and not let it come back to cost you money.

See, you forget, as a customer, all I care about is me and what I purchased. I'm not here to hold a business's hand. I'm not here to say it's ok they make mistakes. Not when it comes to me. I understand if they screw up. It happens. But the part where I am supposed to care or how it should affect me is where I'm getting confused. Uh, that's their problem. Not mine. Nor will it ever be. You say oh...sorry you didn't get what you paid for. Let's make up for it by sending crap because you could be lying. Me possibly lying about it is not my problem. It's the problem of the business involved. It's not my fault they have no system in place to check this. It's theirs. They are a business. If the only way for them to keep from being had is to screw over a guy who just spent $800 on their product, it sounds like they have a piss poor quality control plan in place and piss poor customer service. Like I've said, I could see a pack or a box. But a case? You guys act like this is so trivial.

And all of you saying he was destined for this junk anyways whether the autos were in there or not are just nuts. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't. I'd lean towards he wasn't. Heavily. But we'll never know because he didn't get the chance and topps sure as hell wasn't going to give him a chance. No big deal. It was only $800. That's chump change right? And hey, he could be lying.

I'm sorry but as a customer, none of this would be my problem and I sure as hell wouldn't "suck it up and deal with it" because topps didn't get their end of the deal right.

 

[predatorkj]

First off you would have more than likely got 15 crap autographs from your case, its not like they made these cards after you opened it. They where in the product already and odds are you would have pulled them anyway.

As for them giving you anything more we will say it again, thank the scammers who say they didn't get something when in fact they did. Since their case didnt have 3 1/1 autos they deserve more! So they open a fake claim saying they didnt get all their autographs.


I just went back and I cant even find one poster painting you a scammer care to show us one?

He seems to be replying more to the idea that he did get something good(one blue as I recall) and so he should be happy with the remainder being crap.

 

[MansGame]

Oh, trust me my friend. I do deal with it. But I sure as hell don't let people pull crap and then let them just say oh well. I hold people responsible for their mistakes. Just as I am held responsible for mine. You go anywhere and get a screwed up product, they give you a new one. They get your burger wrong at Burger King, they take it back no questions asked and give you another one. And half the time they let you keep the one they gave you even though you won't eat it. Do they lose money on stuff like that? Yep. Granted it's $7 versus what? $700? $800? Which means what? If you're selling higher dollar products, you'd better damn well make sure you watch what you're doing and not let it come back to cost you money.

See, you forget, as a customer, all I care about is me and what I purchased. I'm not here to hold a business's hand. I'm not here to say it's ok they make mistakes. Not when it comes to me. I understand if they screw up. It happens. But the part where I am supposed to care or how it should affect me is where I'm getting confused. Uh, that's their problem. Not mine. Nor will it ever be. You say oh...sorry you didn't get what you paid for. Let's make up for it by sending crap because you could be lying. Me possibly lying about it is not my problem. It's the problem of the business involved. It's not my fault they have no system in place to check this. It's theirs. They are a business. If the only way for them to keep from being had is to screw over a guy who just spent $800 on their product, it sounds like they have a piss poor quality control plan in place and piss poor customer service. Like I've said, I could see a pack or a box. But a case? You guys act like this is so trivial.

And all of you saying he was destined for this junk anyways whether the autos were in there or not are just nuts. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't. I'd lean towards he wasn't. Heavily. But we'll never know because he didn't get the chance and topps sure as hell wasn't going to give him a chance. No big deal. It was only $800. That's chump change right? And hey, he could be lying.

I'm sorry but as a customer, none of this would be my problem and I sure as hell wouldn't "suck it up and deal with it" because topps didn't get their end of the deal right.

Getting a bad burger at Burger King and getting a new one is a terrible analogy.

If you use that, then Topps did what Burger King would do, give you the bare minimum of what you asked for - 15 random autos or a plan whooper.

The variable in all this - and the reason for a poor example to compare too - is there is a degree of gambling involved and lottery involved where he COULD HAVE got some sick 1/1 auto or crazy color or whatever. Instead, he was shorted 15 autos (we have always assumed this to e true by the way) and Topps sent him just that - 15 autos, no more, no less.


---
Buying Albert Belle cards! PM me!

 

[WaxPax]

So, what about the 15 extra autos that ended up in someones "Hot Box" or "Loaded Case"... I'm sure those customers have a different spin on all this.....At this point, with your "replacements" in hand, you've ended up with a poor to fair case....You've joined the majority who bust cases with those results, time to move on....

 

[nappyd]

I'm ready to sue op for fraud because this didn't happen

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[bongo870]

Oh, trust me my friend. I do deal with it. But I sure as hell don't let people pull crap and then let them just say oh well. I hold people responsible for their mistakes. Just as I am held responsible for mine. You go anywhere and get a screwed up product, they give you a new one. They get your burger wrong at Burger King, they take it back no questions asked and give you another one. And half the time they let you keep the one they gave you even though you won't eat it. Do they lose money on stuff like that? Yep. Granted it's $7 versus what? $700? $800? Which means what? If you're selling higher dollar products, you'd better damn well make sure you watch what you're doing and not let it come back to cost you money.

See, you forget, as a customer, all I care about is me and what I purchased. I'm not here to hold a business's hand. I'm not here to say it's ok they make mistakes. Not when it comes to me. I understand if they screw up. It happens. But the part where I am supposed to care or how it should affect me is where I'm getting confused. Uh, that's their problem. Not mine. Nor will it ever be. You say oh...sorry you didn't get what you paid for. Let's make up for it by sending crap because you could be lying. Me possibly lying about it is not my problem. It's the problem of the business involved. It's not my fault they have no system in place to check this. It's theirs. They are a business. If the only way for them to keep from being had is to screw over a guy who just spent $800 on their product, it sounds like they have a piss poor quality control plan in place and piss poor customer service. Like I've said, I could see a pack or a box. But a case? You guys act like this is so trivial.

And all of you saying he was destined for this junk anyways whether the autos were in there or not are just nuts. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't. I'd lean towards he wasn't. Heavily. But we'll never know because he didn't get the chance and topps sure as hell wasn't going to give him a chance. No big deal. It was only $800. That's chump change right? And hey, he could be lying.

I'm sorry but as a customer, none of this would be my problem and I sure as hell wouldn't "suck it up and deal with it" because topps didn't get their end of the deal right.

You all don't seem to understand topps side of it. Giving him replacement cards is Topps way of says yes we screwed up and here are the cards that were missing. BUT, (yes but) Topps is being ripped off by people all the time. I'm not saying that is what happened here, But topps has to protect themselves. Now look at what he said to Topps. 3 things that to me would be a red flag for Topps.
#1

When I asked what kind of replacement compensation I could expect, I was told "some autographs to replace the missing ones". I told them it was unacceptable

Flag #1
#2

(where I stated my case and politely asked for more than just 15 random base replacement autos)

flag #2 asking for more
#3

I emailed them back stating that I wasn't comfortable with them shipping me compensation without knowing what it was beforehand

red flag #3

Like I said this may not be the case but to Topps it looks like it. What makes this lot crap? The value of the autos? the players ? the condition? the variation. I seem to think it is all about the money here. Again I am a huge Ruf collector. To me that auto isn't crap. And to others a lot of those autos aren't crap too. Again.. If that Ruf auto is such crap I will gladly take it off your hands!

 

[bongo870]

So, what about the 15 extra autos that ended up in someones "Hot Box" or "Loaded Case"... I'm sure those customers have a different spin on all this.....At this point, with your "replacements" in hand, you've ended up with a poor to fair case....You've joined the majority who bust cases with those results, time to move on....

not true. it could be a great case not knowing what the other autos were....

 

[nyc3]

My question is plain and simple.

What about the guy who got everything promised and the contents look identical to this one? Are they entitled to more? While I think it stinks it is what it is. I have busted enough cases to know that bad cases happen (with hits inserted) and they look like this often enough. And lets be honest for a second are 2 refractor autos out of the 15 being returned to the buyer thats a $3.00 base auto really going to turn this around?

 

[jbhofmann]

How many times has Topps ever had someone ship the entire contents of their case back to them?

A multi-million dollar company that can't replace a $400 product should not be in business.



Topps had a CEO that was making the same salary as CEO's at Hershey, Wrigley's and Kraft foods. The problem? Those are all multi-BILLION dollar companies. Topps is not.

 

[jbhofmann]

My question is plain and simple.

What about the guy who got everything promised and the contents look identical to this one? Are they entitled to more? While I think it stinks it is what it is. I have busted enough cases to know that bad cases happen (with hits inserted) and they look like this often enough. And lets be honest for a second are 2 refractor autos of a $3.00 card really going to turn this around?

He received the stated guarantee.


Honestly, can anyone think of another sealed product that would be replaced like this? I can't. I'm honestly asking.


Bag of Blow-Pops with no gum inside = Tootsie Roll Industries sends you the gum that was suppose to be in the middle?


It's just ridiculous if you think about it.

 

[nyc3]

He received the stated guarantee.


Honestly, can anyone think of another sealed product that would be replaced like this? I can't. I'm honestly asking.


Bag of Blow-Pops with no gum inside = Tootsie Roll Industries sends you the gum that was suppose to be in the middle?


It's just ridiculous if you think about it.

Considering each bag of blow pops are for the most part identical I think that may be a bad example. There are not super blow pops that demand a premium randomly inserted. I would expect a bags worth of blow pops back. If they threw in extra that would be nice, but I would understand why if people are constantly claiming their blow pops are empty with no way to prove otherwise.

 

[nyc3]

How many times has Topps ever had someone ship the entire contents of their case back to them?

A multi-million dollar company that can't replace a $400 product should not be in business.



Topps had a CEO that was making the same salary as CEO's at Hershey, Wrigley's and Kraft foods. The problem? Those are all multi-BILLION dollar companies. Topps is not.

Let me be clear I have no reason to think the OP is involved in anything I am saying. But we all know others out there game the system and thats why this is in place. I sat here and read what you wrote and within seconds I thought of a way to take advantage of your send in your bad case for a case plan.

I buy a case say I didn't get 8 autos but I did. Replace the good stuff with crap cards off of ebay and sent it off to topps for my new chance at a sweet case. repeat from my sister in laws house, uncles, grandmas then back at home. I just got 2x's because there is no way to prove it.

 

[jbhofmann]

Considering each bag of blow pops are for the most part identical I think that may be a bad example. There are not super blow pops that demand a premium randomly inserted. I would expect a bags worth of blow pops back. If they threw in extra that would be nice, but I would understand why if people are constantly claiming their blow pops are empty with no way to prove otherwise.

Do you think if the signature at the bottom of the letter was Brent Williams instead of Joe Blow it would make a difference?

 

[MansGame]

Guys - the OP'er was shorted 15 "random autos"

It's tough to use examples like "Well if you got a bad burger at Burger King, they'd give you a burger to replace it"

Only because he was shorted something that is unknown essentially other than the bare bones of (1) we know it's a card (2) we know it's a player in the release and (3) it has an auto on it.

That's it... BUT it could be much more. Just stating the obvious but go back to my Cracker Jack example - that is a good example because who knows what the prize could of been that you were shorted, etc.

 

[BBCgalaxee]

Man on the moon? No problem!

Correct amount of autos per box? Don't ask for miracles.

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[MansGame]

:lol:

 

[predatorkj]

Getting a bad burger at Burger King and getting a new one is a terrible analogy.

If you use that, then Topps did what Burger King would do, give you the bare minimum of what you asked for - 15 random autos or a plan whooper.

The variable in all this - and the reason for a poor example to compare too - is there is a degree of gambling involved and lottery involved where he COULD HAVE got some sick 1/1 auto or crazy color or whatever. Instead, he was shorted 15 autos (we have always assumed this to e true by the way) and Topps sent him just that - 15 autos, no more, no less.


---
Buying Albert Belle cards! PM me!

Actually, it's a great analogy. You see, let's say they put mustard on the top bun and bottom bun. And you hate mustard. Burger King doesn't just pull the buns off and replace them(or even the lettuce or tomato that may have gotten some mustard on it). They replace the whole damn thing, even though they could have done the bare minimum. BTW, I'm not a big BK fan or anything. Just throwing that out there.

The only difference is the price point. Because you could even have asked for the mustard and turn around, lie about it, and tell them you want a new burger. Their goal is to make you happy. IMO, the price point of a case of topps anything means they really better get it right because to keep that customer happy, they will definitely be kicking themselves in the groin if they don't get their crap together. The only way for them to make sure they don't get scammers is to ensure some way of being able to tell if a problem with the machines occurred and how long it went on for, figure out how many cases, packs, or boxes were created during said time span, and either pull them or at least have somebody log the range of product screwed up using the serial numbers and creating a range of the boxes/cases that may have been defective as it were. That way they have that info and if someone calls in, they can know that the screwup did occur and that what the person is telling them is very likely due to the documentation of said error and cross checking the range of boxes/cases using the serial numbers. And, it wouldn't be all that hard because you're talking about training a person already working there to do a job that takes five extra minutes of paper work. You guys are so adamant this is an anomaly so it shouldn't be a constant issue leading to loss on their end by implementing this method. And they could easily tell how many boxes/cases the problem would affect by testing to see how many are created per a given time interval(let's say in increments of five minutes depending on the speed of the machines) and then creating a sliding rule scale for the employee to quick reference.

So, the fact that they screw up and it hurts me as a customer is still very well their problem, not mine. You don't want to get burned, do something to keep it from happening without burning a person who just spent a lot of money on your product. Not by screwing them or losing a customer. The real issue is a lot of you guys will still go buy cases of product and perpetuate the problem. Enjoy reaping what you sow.

 

[predatorkj]

Guys - the OP'er was shorted 15 "random autos"

It's tough to use examples like "Well if you got a bad burger at Burger King, they'd give you a burger to replace it"

Only because he was shorted something that is unknown essentially other than the bare bones of (1) we know it's a card (2) we know it's a player in the release and (3) it has an auto on it.

That's it... BUT it could be much more. Just stating the obvious but go back to my Cracker Jack example - that is a good example because who knows what the prize could of been that you were shorted, etc.

Dude you're getting hung up on things that are small picture. Come on Mac! What's a hamburger? A hamburger! What's a case of topps? A case of topps. What's in a case of topps? Nobody knows until it's opened. The only real way to replace the hits would have been to replace how many ever boxes were missing them. That way you are truly replacing the product without any possible bias.

 

[predatorkj]

So, what about the 15 extra autos that ended up in someones "Hot Box" or "Loaded Case"... I'm sure those customers have a different spin on all this.....At this point, with your "replacements" in hand, you've ended up with a poor to fair case....You've joined the majority who bust cases with those results, time to move on....

Great for the customers who got a hot box. Kinda makes you wonder if that is the true meaning of a hot box. Hot box ='s "we screwed up in the packaging plant"?

But still, in the end, the customers who got the extra autos is still indeed topp's problem is it not. You see, all of this comes back to this being their problem. Every time no matter how it's restated.