So looks like Leaf is on to something....

[Mighty Bombjack]

Thankfully, the above has nothing to do with this issue.. BG

I want to believe you, but you keep bringing up newspapers and magazines, both of which I believe can be sent via media mail (though I could be wrong as I've only ever sent books via this service).

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

I guess I will be the one to go ahead and ask BG: Why, given your outward confidence that you are on the right side of the law, did your last product not include logos? If the first amendment issue is so cut and dry here, why not shout it out loud like a good American?

 

[Hendersonfan]

Magazines CANNOT be sent Media Mail. You might get away with it, but if caught they will charge regular postage. Magazines and comic books have advertisements to buy other products, books, movies and music do not.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[Sean_C]

Because companies aren't individuals, no matter how hard the conservative controlled Supreme Court may have wrongly decided.

Serious question: why do you have a problem with using the first amendment here?

It seems to me that the first amendment was written to protect individuals in this country. Businesses and companies, like Leaf (and even Topps) are run by individuals.

What's the problem?

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Magazines CANNOT be sent Media Mail. You might get away with it, but if caught they will charge regular postage. Magazines and comic books have advertisements to buy other products, books, movies and music do not.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

Good to know. Must be the same with newspapers as well.

 

[Leaf]

Again with the calls, Brian? I've already told you a hundred times that I have no desire to talk to you on the phone about an issue that we're discussing fine, great, and dandy in public. If you can only say it in private, then it either;

can't be that important.
is something that you want to be able to have deny later on ("I never said that." "You misunderstood me." etc).

I do know how deep the anti-competitive / antitrust issues are, and think that you and all of the rest of the card manufacturers should go after them full force on that basis. The first amendment issue is the area that I take exception to.

Since you are uneducated on the law behind it, I was going to help you understand.. But if you have no desire for the truth, I won't waste the time..

Feel free to stay in the dark, but then you can't blame anyone else when you speak with ignorance of the facts.. BG

 

[Leaf]

Mighty, if you PM me a number is be willing to call ya later on (at charity event now) and share the facts.. BG

 

[Hendersonfan]

Good to know. Must be the same with newspapers as well.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[allstars]

Don't worry about me .. I have more money than I need in my lifetime..not bragging,

I cringed when I read the above comment BG. Nobody knows what challenges the future holds or what they'll need to meet those challenges. Just sayin.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

You are wrong, sorry..
Look at card toons case..
The law comes in handy.. Bg

I am looking for this case, but all I see is a case between Cardtoons and MLBPA, not MLB. Was there one that I can't find? The logo use issue is one involving MLB, not MLBPA, correct?

Do you have an MLBPA license, BG?

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Mighty, if you PM me a number is be willing to call ya later on (at charity event now) and share the facts.. BG

will do

 

[TwinGnats]

There is no issue, you want to steal the property of another business so you can make money.

Do magazines steal?

Can't argue with someone clueless on issues..

 

[HPC]

ITT: Leaf saying "don't hate the player hate the game."

 

[D-Lite]

So don't you collect these? Wouldn't you like more to collect? Why are you all over BG's ass over trying to make the hobby better? You should be pissed at Topps for their monopoly. Pour out your Cheerios that someone pissed in this morning and relax.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

No, you should be pissed at Selig and the MLB for allowing it, taking a huge payout to sellout the license.

 

[DaClyde]

So don't you collect these? Wouldn't you like more to collect? Why are you all over BG's ass over trying to make the hobby better? You should be pissed at Topps for their monopoly. Pour out your Cheerios that someone pissed in this morning and relax.

Because the 1st Amendment is sacrosanct and can never be allowed to be used for anything trivial. Right, Mr. Flynt?

Don't you love how the anti-Leaf crowd has already decided the issue, because they are privy to BG's innermost thoughts and business strategies? It's a good thing we have them to save us from the evils of team names on cards that don't also say "Topps". If only Cardcop here to chime in, surely BG is doing something shady with fake patches or counterfeit sticker autos, as well.

I don't get why so many are down on the Honkbal Hoofdklasse set BG is planning.

 

[TwinGnats]

The problem with the argument is that it isn't a free speech issue. Anyone would be hard pressed to make an argument that there is any sort of speech involved in sports cards. What the guy from Leaf is arguing is not a first amendment argument but a fair use argument. That doesn't apply here as well. All he wants to do is to take the property (brands) that a business has spent billions to develop and take it, with no payment nor permission and seek to line his own pockets. That is just theft, plain and simple. Sports cards do not exist for the purpose of satire nor reporting. It's not about anti-Leaf, it's anti-theft. Why does this hobby attract so many scumbags?

Because the 1st Amendment is sacrosanct and can never be allowed to be used for anything trivial. Right, Mr. Flynt?

Don't you love how the anti-Leaf crowd has already decided the issue, because they are privy to BG's innermost thoughts and business strategies? It's a good thing we have them to save us from the evils of team names on cards that don't also say "Topps". If only Cardcop here to chime in, surely BG is doing something shady with fake patches or counterfeit sticker autos, as well.

I don't get why so many are down on the Honkbal Hoofdklasse set BG is planning.

 

[RAZOR-Z]

IF you actually want this business to survive, you should pray that I test the law..

It could save the industry..the current direction is a one way ticket to the end..

BG

Thank you! -

I appreciate your hard work.

-AJ

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Because the 1st Amendment is sacrosanct and can never be allowed to be used for anything trivial. Right, Mr. Flynt?

Don't you love how the anti-Leaf crowd has already decided the issue, because they are privy to BG's innermost thoughts and business strategies? It's a good thing we have them to save us from the evils of team names on cards that don't also say "Topps". If only Cardcop here to chime in, surely BG is doing something shady with fake patches or counterfeit sticker autos, as well.

I don't get why so many are down on the Honkbal Hoofdklasse set BG is planning.

Well, it is equally lovable how the legal argument of many here is "don't you want more competition in the hobby?" I think we all do, but many of us see MLB as having the right to protect its brand. If BG wants to hand out cards on the street, he should evoke the 1st amendment. If he wants to entertain and provoke dialog through parody, he seems protected (as that seems the basis of the Flynt and Cardtoons cases, and Cardtoons parodied players, not the league). If he wants to profit through the use of an established brand, it seems that damages would be pretty easy to establish. BG would profit through the use of MLB's intellectual property, and he would certainly hurt MLB's profit via that property. I don't like MLB granting a simple license. I think they have the right to do so. I am also an idiot and definitely not a lawyer.

There are no evils in what BG is doing, and I certainly don't think what he is doing is shady. I just doubt that he will be successful. I look forward to chatting with him, as this is a fascinating topic.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

The problem with the argument is that it isn't a free speech issue. Anyone would be hard pressed to make an argument that there is any sort of speech involved in sports cards. What the guy from Leaf is arguing is not a first amendment argument but a fair use argument. That doesn't apply here as well. All he wants to do is to take the property (brands) that a business has spent billions to develop and take it, with no payment nor permission and seek to line his own pockets. That is just theft, plain and simple. Sports cards do not exist for the purpose of satire nor reporting. It's not about anti-Leaf, it's anti-theft. Why does this hobby attract so many scumbags?

Good post. I wish I had read it before posting mine, as it already basically said what I was typing.

 

[Sean_C]

Why would I be pissed at Topps? I'm pissed at MLB, as they were the ones that created the mess in the first place. All of the companies around at the time had the ability to get the "exclusive", and Topps was the winner. If Brian had been around at the time and had won the deal, I'd still just be pissed at MLB, not at Razor / Leaf for having won it.

And yes I do like to collect cards, and I do wish there were more options. I would like to see a level playing field, hell, I'd even like to either see Topps lose the ability to have individual player contracts or allow everyone to have them to remove the "Bowman advantage" (I loved all of the late releases in 2004 and would love to see that happen every year). But if you think Brian is in this to make the hobby "better", you are naive. I think even he would say he's in this to make $, and to that end I don't even fault him for that. Everyone deserves to be able to make money. I just think there are better ways to do so than the ones he employs.

So don't you collect these? Wouldn't you like more to collect? Why are you all over BG's ass over trying to make the hobby better? You should be pissed at Topps for their monopoly. Pour out your Cheerios that someone pissed in this morning and relax.

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