The Next $1000 Autographed FY Card

[Austin]

Sorry, this is still blowing my mind. How is it even possible that a player ended his age 21 season with a higher accumulated WAR than the ENTIRE career WAR of a guy who was a 5-time All-Star, had almost 400 HRs, 1,444 RBI, 231 SBs, almost 2,200 hits, 1,170 Runs and almost 4,000 Total Bases.

Career WAR
Mike Trout - before age 22, 1,490 Plate Appearances - 21.1 WAR
Joe Carter - 16 year career to age 38, 9,154 Plate Appearances - 17.1 WAR

Flaw in the WAR statistic, or Trout is simply that amazing?

Unfair comparison.
You list all offensive numbers, but WAR also takes defense into account.
Carter was in the league's Top 5 in errors made among his position nine times in his career, and ranks 67th all-time in errors made.

Also, Carter's lifetime WAR number includes his final years in his late 30s, when he had a negative WAR in each of his four final seasons, lowering his total another three points.

WAR heavily takes into account defense.
For instance, in 1996, Carter hit .253 with 30 homers, 107 rbi, 35 doubles and 7 triples.
A good offensive year, but his WAR was -0.6 because his defense was so terrible.

 

[sportscardtheory]

Unfair comparison.
You list all offensive numbers, but WAR also takes defense into account.
Carter was in the league's Top 5 in errors made among his position nine times in his career, and ranks 67th all-time in errors made.

Also, Carter's lifetime WAR number includes his final years in his late 30s, when he had a negative WAR in each of his four final seasons, lowering his total another three points.

WAR heavily takes into account defense.
For instance, in 1996, Carter hit .253 with 30 homers, 107 rbi, 35 doubles and 7 triples.
A good offensive year, but his WAR was -0.6 because his defense was so terrible.

I don 't think you understand my point. I never said it doesn't take into account defense. WAR is an accumulated offensive/defensive stat, so the fact that a player had more WAR in 2 seasons before the age of 22 than a pretty darn good player had in his ENTIRE 16 YEAR CAREER is pretty amazing. My question is, which player does it say more about, Trout or Carter?

 

[Topnotchsy]

I don 't think you understand my point. I never said it doesn't take into account defense. WAR is an accumulated offensive/defensive stat, so the fact that a player had more WAR in 2 seasons before the age of 22 than a pretty darn good player had in his ENTIRE 16 YEAR CAREER is pretty amazing. My question is, which player does it say more about, Trout or Carter?

I'd say it says more about Carter. Trout has been insane but there are tons of pretty average players who had higher career WAR than that...

 

[tribefan26]

My question is, which player does it say more about, Trout or Carter?

I think it says that Carter was a decent Offensive Player and a poor defensive player who overall was somewhat better than a replacement but no great shakes.

Trout has put together two seasons as a 20 & 21 year old which are almost unprecedented. If he had done for a contender the hype would be deafening.

 

[Austin]

I don 't think you understand my point. I never said it doesn't take into account defense. WAR is an accumulated offensive/defensive stat, so the fact that a player had more WAR in 2 seasons before the age of 22 than a pretty darn good player had in his ENTIRE 16 YEAR CAREER is pretty amazing. My question is, which player does it say more about, Trout or Carter?

I thought I had understood your point, based on what you wrote.
You asked in your second sentence, "How is it possible" for a player with these numbers (you listed all offensive numbers) to have a lower lifetime WAR than Mike Trout.
I answered that it's possible because Carter was terrible defensively, which greatly lowered his overall WAR.
If I sounded condescending or rude, my apologies. It wasn't meant that way.

As for who does it say more about, Trout or Carter? It says Mike Trout is an all-around Historic player, while Carter was good offensively, but terrible defensively.

But yes, I agree that it is mind-blowing that Trout has a higher WAR in only two years than many star players who played 15+ years. I don't think it's a flaw in WAR. I think it reveals flaws in players whose fans (and general managers) think are greater than they really are because of their gaudy power numbers.

 

[PeteD]

Bryce who?

 

[Jaypers]

The four-figure barrier has been breached.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Bowman...QWZ4VwIjhOfESa54iLArk%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc