LEAF files counterclaims against the Topps Company....

Leaf said:

George_Calfas said:

RL24 said:

[quote="George_Calfas":3rbk3bgc]

#7, same images....wow you just killed the first Ali set. The base set was one of the best things about 2011 Leaf Ali, I guess I will sell my set soon before the prices tank.

Click to expand...

I don't think that's really fair George. Do you get pissed every year, year after year, when Topps uses the same images for Topps/Bowman Chrome as they did in the non chrome sets? Because they do you know... the same exact image. I think that is the same situation here, first the non-metal came out, then the metal. And it sounds like BG is actually changing it up as much as possible, instead of just going with the industry standard.

I just don't see how this could be a complaint, when Topps does so many things so much worse in this same department of recycling images. For Rickey fans it has been a terrible 5 years of a bunch of cards with the same images. There are tons of examples, but I'll just show the most recent one. We found out that Rickey was going to be in Topps Marquee. How exciting!! Then we saw the cards...

Click to expand...

Sucks when Topps recycles the same old pose, and yes I complain then too (yes DLP did it and it sucks). However my concern is that base cards on the Leaf Ali Metal sellsheet look identical to the base card in Leaf Ali; the only difference appears to be the "metal" technology. If the base set is indeed the same card plus metal tech it will ultimately hurt the first product. If this is indeed the case Leaf is not changing things up but infact giving us the same base set with different technology.

It will be fun to look at say card #26 in both base sets and see if they are indeed the same; I really hope this is not the case.

Click to expand...

Look at both cards (regular and Metal)... these cards are so way different and should appeal to different customers.. BG[/quote:3rbk3bgc]

Looking forward to it.

RL24 said:

Bob Loblaw said:

The Leaf Auto created a checklisted set to prevent the grab-bag and lottery aspect.

Bonus for the consumer.

Click to expand...

I totally understand that. All that I was saying is that if the customer didn't get a chance to pull a Leaf Auto, but still had a chance to pull a 2001 Pujols BC Auto, they would have purchased the product. Without the Leaf Auto. I know why it was included, and as you said, the reason wasn't to add appeal to the customer. That was just a bonus.

shepsspot said:

Pretty sure there is no where I said that people should not buy what they want to buy! His point was that Leaf is doing all these new and great things, and I still don't see where that is. He is buying other companies cards and putting them into a Leaf box.

Click to expand...

The afformentioned Leaf box is the only box in the world you could pull that famous Strasburg Super from. I'm pretty sure it's the only box you can pull a 2001 Pujols BC Auto from. You can't even pull one of those from a box of 2001 BC. Has the grab bag concept been done before? Sure, but not a high end one like this. And you're pretending like this one product is the only thing that Leaf has ever made... from what I have read, the Ali set was both new and great. Good customer service is definitely something new in this hobby, and it is also great. BG gave us a list of 10 new/great things his company is bringing to the hobby.

It seems to me like some people just feel the need to hate because BG is accessible to our community. If a Topps person hung out like this, a ton of people would hate on him too, and it would mostly be the same haters. Ah well...

Click to expand...

Not a hater at all, pretty sure this is the first time I have ever got involved in a Razor/Leaf thread. I am just sick and tired about hearing how great his stuff is, when it's not his stuff he is selling.

And out of that list of ten "NEW/GREAT" things his company is bringing to the hobby, how much is baseball related? Pete Rose, really thats the great thing? Fewer cards of guys that Topps didnt want? What else am I missing out of that list?

Shep

shepsspot said:

RL24 said:

Bob Loblaw said:

The Leaf Auto created a checklisted set to prevent the grab-bag and lottery aspect.

Bonus for the consumer.

Click to expand...

I totally understand that. All that I was saying is that if the customer didn't get a chance to pull a Leaf Auto, but still had a chance to pull a 2001 Pujols BC Auto, they would have purchased the product. Without the Leaf Auto. I know why it was included, and as you said, the reason wasn't to add appeal to the customer. That was just a bonus.

shepsspot said:

Pretty sure there is no where I said that people should not buy what they want to buy! His point was that Leaf is doing all these new and great things, and I still don't see where that is. He is buying other companies cards and putting them into a Leaf box.

Click to expand...

The afformentioned Leaf box is the only box in the world you could pull that famous Strasburg Super from. I'm pretty sure it's the only box you can pull a 2001 Pujols BC Auto from. You can't even pull one of those from a box of 2001 BC. Has the grab bag concept been done before? Sure, but not a high end one like this. And you're pretending like this one product is the only thing that Leaf has ever made... from what I have read, the Ali set was both new and great. Good customer service is definitely something new in this hobby, and it is also great. BG gave us a list of 10 new/great things his company is bringing to the hobby.

It seems to me like some people just feel the need to hate because BG is accessible to our community. If a Topps person hung out like this, a ton of people would hate on him too, and it would mostly be the same haters. Ah well...

Click to expand...

Not a hater at all, pretty sure this is the first time I have ever got involved in a Razor/Leaf thread. I am just sick and tired about hearing how great his stuff is, when it's not his stuff he is selling.

And out of that list of ten "NEW/GREAT" things his company is bringing to the hobby, how much is baseball related? Pete Rose, really thats the great thing? Fewer cards of guys that Topps didnt want? What else am I missing out of that list?

Shep

Click to expand...

Shep,

#1- We make lots of other stuff. You are picking one product out of 22 this year. We do make original content.

#2- Topps cannot use Pete Rose (trust me, if they could they would). We made a set that made Pete Rose himself hot in the pants. When you see the inscriptions, Wow!!!!! Thats all anyone will be able to say.....

BG

BG---Not sure if you read my question or not. Will you be issuing baseball products with pack(s) (12/24/36) rather than the one-per-box?

Liberate Baltimore said:

BG---Not sure if you read my question or not. Will you be issuing baseball products with pack(s) (12/24/36) rather than the one-per-box?

Click to expand...

In 2012, yes.
BG

Leaf said:

#2- Topps cannot use Pete Rose (trust me, if they could they would). We made a set that made Pete Rose himself hot in the pants. When you see the inscriptions, Wow!!!!! Thats all anyone will be able to say.....

BG

Click to expand...

actually they could purchase your pete rose cards on the open market and insert them into a product.

notjomommasclint said:

Leaf said:

#2- Topps cannot use Pete Rose (trust me, if they could they would). We made a set that made Pete Rose himself hot in the pants. When you see the inscriptions, Wow!!!!! Thats all anyone will be able to say.....

BG

Click to expand...

actually they could purchase your pete rose cards on the open market and insert them into a product.

Click to expand...

They can't as long as they hold an MLB Properties license

shepsspot said:

Not a hater at all, pretty sure this is the first time I have ever got involved in a Razor/Leaf thread. I am just sick and tired about hearing how great his stuff is, when it's not his stuff he is selling.

And out of that list of ten "NEW/GREAT" things his company is bringing to the hobby, how much is baseball related? Pete Rose, really thats the great thing? Fewer cards of guys that Topps didnt want? What else am I missing out of that list?

Shep

Click to expand...

Of course you don't think you're a hater, you have your hater goggles on. It's like a drunk person yelling "I'M NOT DRUNK!!!" in a slurred voice. Alright buddy, you're not a hater.

Our hobby encompasses more than baseball cards. I think it's "card collecting" which can even include people who collect boxing cards, or Nascar cards, or whatever cards they want to collect. So I don't really see why products have to be baseball related to be considered part of our hobby. Maybe I missed it.

If you don't understand that there are people out there who like Pete Rose, and would like a chance to own a card with his autograph or GU, I don't know what to tell you. OK, I do. There are people like that out there. They won't get a chance to pull an auto or GU from Topps. Leaf has to come to the rescue to fulfill the needs of collectors who desire a Rose auto/GU. That's great! If not necessarily new...

The bolded part is what I was talking about with the hater goggles. If BG said "we're getting rid of sticker autos!" you would say "that's because they are too cheap to spend the extra money on the materials to create sticker autos." Topps DOES want the autos in their product. Their customers want the autos. Topps doesn't want to pay somebody $7 per auto when they could get a scrub for $1. So the customers get an auto of a scrub instead of a stud, all because Topps didn't want to pay the extra $6. How you managed to turn that around into a negative thing for Leaf is amazing, and shows the power of the goggles I have been referring to.

And there's the way that, as BG pointed out, there were 22 products released but you can't stop bringing up all the things you see that were wrong about the 1 product. A product which the customers enjoyed and bought up.

It's blatant haterism. I don't know BG and the newest Leaf card I own is from 2005. I just think it's cool that he hangs out here, and don't think it's cool to troll him for doing so. So you don't like the grab bag concept. We get it. Other people do like it. Leaf helps them out. Stop hating.

nosterbor said:

I love the image on this one.

This is what you get with no MLB or MLBPA License. What the hell are you complaining about?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure you have that fully worked out. This is what you get with a MLB and MLBPA license:




Or, since you prefer the FankenCuts as examples...





I do understand your hatred of unlicensed cards though, as you have expressed it numerous times in numerous threads. Even ones that have nothing to do with the topic, like this one.

Is there a final release date on Ali?

Leaf said:

Agreed.

I sincerely apologize. The poster was trying to get under my skin and obviously did.

I personally have no problem with the Twins or their fans (although I still think they had a sucky year and this guy obviously is not held in high regard by me so you can see my failed connection/humor)...

I will just learn to skip over posts designed to derail threads and not contribute in a meaningful way.. BG

Click to expand...

Good luck with the lawsuit, just don't ever make a crack about somebody paying FULL PRICE for a Chris Huseby USA jersey you had on ebay... we all know anybody that would do that is an idiot... ::facepalm::

Ty Hope said:

Is there a final release date on Ali?

Click to expand...

ships around october 10th

Moonlight Graham said:

Leaf said:

Agreed.

I sincerely apologize. The poster was trying to get under my skin and obviously did.

I personally have no problem with the Twins or their fans (although I still think they had a sucky year and this guy obviously is not held in high regard by me so you can see my failed connection/humor)...

I will just learn to skip over posts designed to derail threads and not contribute in a meaningful way.. BG

Click to expand...

Good luck with the lawsuit, just don't ever make a crack about somebody paying FULL PRICE for a Chris Huseby USA jersey you had on ebay... we all know anybody that would do that is an idiot... ::facepalm::

Click to expand...

I would never...... BG

Good luck in the lawsuit. I don't really see a big deal with what Leaf is doing here. That, or I just don't care enough.

In any event, I think I saw in this thread, mentioned by Brian, that they were thinking (or hopefully planning?) on doing something with the '48 Leaf design? That would be pretty cool since I'm a 95% vintage collector, though I do like to do one modern set a year. If you were able to sneak some real deal '48 Leaf Satchel Paige or Jackie Robinson cards in there? THAT would be awesome! Not that I would land one but it would still be pretty neat.

I will be looking forward to the boxes in 2012 that have greater pack numbers in there. I do love the look of some of your current and upcoming stuff but it's too much of a gamble for me.

RiceLynnEvans75 said:

Good luck in the lawsuit. I don't really see a big deal with what Leaf is doing here. That, or I just don't care enough.

In any event, I think I saw in this thread, mentioned by Brian, that they were thinking (or hopefully planning?) on doing something with the '48 Leaf design? That would be pretty cool since I'm a 95% vintage collector, though I do like to do one modern set a year. If you were able to sneak some real deal '48 Leaf Satchel Paige or Jackie Robinson cards in there? THAT would be awesome! Not that I would land one but it would still be pretty neat.

I will be looking forward to the boxes in 2012 that have greater pack numbers in there. I do love the look of some of your current and upcoming stuff but it's too much of a gamble for me.

Click to expand...

SO THIS!

the '48 Leaf set is a thing of beauty! and the Paige is easily the hardest post-war rookie card in existence.

RL24 said:

nosterbor said:

I love the image on this one.

This is what you get with no MLB or MLBPA License. What the hell are you complaining about?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure you have that fully worked out. This is what you get with a MLB and MLBPA license:

Or, since you prefer the FankenCuts as examples...

I do understand your hatred of unlicensed cards though, as you have expressed it numerous times in numerous threads. Even ones that have nothing to do with the topic, like this one.

Click to expand...

Hows this for a CUT!