- Thread starter
- #21
sschauer
Member
This is worth a read if you haven't yet here is a picture of the effected cards that have been found
Welcome to our community
Be apart of something great, join today!
1990 Topps Frank Thomas NNOF plus more
- Thread starter sschauer
- Start date
Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.
BunchOBull
Active member
Yes guys, it's certainly a work in progress-although we are getting close to finishing the puzzle-and while the result is the same, the causative theory has certainly morphed into a more plausible one. It's been a bit of a whirl-wind.
200lbhockeyplayer
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 11,049
- 2
It's amazing work. Truly.
I think it's cool to see these coming out now...19 years after the release due to some card sleuthing.
I think it's cool to see these coming out now...19 years after the release due to some card sleuthing.
uniquebaseballcards
New member
- Nov 12, 2008
- 6,783
- 0
You guys could get work on CSI. Great job.
RL24
New member
That was an awesome thread! I posted a link on the Topps board, I know lots of those guys have thousands and thousands of 1990 Topps....
BunchOBull
Active member
Thank you sir. Like a dummy, I didn't even think about posting it over there.
nborton
Active member
Dang. I wish I would have seen this 6 months ago. My brother and I bought tons of 90 Topps here in NC, and he pulled a NNOF Thomas. Problem is I had so many 90 Topps laying around I tossed them all 6 months ago. :shock:
I might have some more in one place. But it's not anything close to the amount I tossed out unfortunately.
I might have some more in one place. But it's not anything close to the amount I tossed out unfortunately.
BunchOBull
Active member
Glad to hear folks are still pulling NNOFs! They're out there I guess, just not with any rhyme or reason.
nborton
Active member
BunchOBull said:
If you were referring to me. It was actually in 1990. :lol:
BunchOBull
Active member
haha, nevermind
HawaiianLance
New member
- Aug 7, 2008
- 714
- 0
A former printers perspective.
I apologize in advance for the length of this post. I tried hard to keep it focused and to point, but the processes discussed were by defintion "technical" - and that always means 'lengthy'. (and why printers used to make super good money)
In a nutshell - here it is:
Firstly, you have to remember that the techniques I'm about to discuss are no longer used - digital printing having replaced most of the old school lithography press techniques. Some of the details I'm going to gloss over because, truthfully, it's too detailed for the average collector to grasp, and more importantly does not address what happened, or at least my opinion of what I think happened.
Okay, old school technique for printing was to take artwork - photographs (notice I said 'photos' not 'images'), graphics, etc - and have them scanned in via barrel or drum scanner. This was sort of a giant version of what we now call a desktop scanner. (simple graphics were created on what was called the 'pasteboard' and then shot via flat bed camera or processed via latex plate using electrostatic adhesion - xerographic process) The photograph or artwork would then be carefully rolled onto a large drum and spun while a light sensor loaded the colors a byte at a time into a large mainframe-type computer. When you're talking about a sheet of baseball cards, we're talking about each and every photograph having to be scanned in separately and then literally pasted together to form a single large image - what's called Stripping In. (note - this is important to remember for this discussion)
And then from this single large image would be re-shot (four different times with four different negatives for each negative/plate/color) and outputted via final negs - 100% of the final print size. Usually at this stage a single Waterproof would also be created. Waterproofs were single color acetates that mimicked the inks being printed onto paper - meaning all four CMYK colors would be aligned and taped together so that any defects - dust specks, cuts, etc - can be spotted & highlighted with a grease pencil. At which point the printer will have to re-do/correct that section or element of the scanned piece. And once all the doodads & goobers are accounted for - and the designer/art director signs off on it - four final master negatives are produced. It's these negatives that will be shot via UV light to photosensitive aluminum plates. (skipped a few details since it's not relevant)
Now here is where I believe the NNOF was created.
When press operations or the design team were reviewing the Waterproof - something must've been wrong with one part - a name was messed up somehow. Perhaps it was scratched, or there was a dust element, or something else. But something that required that the name be cut out, new artwork via typesetting ordered, glued or waxed onto pasteboard, shot, neg made, and then stripped into the open space in that specific negative (obviously the black neg) that held the original damaged name.
That name was irrelevant to the printing process as it was just another young player. It's important to understand this mindset because too many times modern collectors assign bizarre conspiracy theories as to why certain cards were "selected" for alterations. While that's true today, circa 2009, as manufacturers have intentionally created in these so-called errors to generate interest in the hobby; in 1989 when these Topps card were being printed - errors were just that - plain old mistakes that often get by because high quality standards hadn't been set or expected by the collecting market. Blank backs, wrong backs, missing foil, etc. were very common back then with the high production rates of the early 90's.
Okay, back on point.
When you strip-in an element (BTW it might be amusing for some to note the job classifieds back then - you'd see an opening for a "stripper" issued by a print shop or design studio. That used to cause giggles back in the day) What you did was this:
Let's say that the damaged element was in a simple field - a bit of type sitting in a neutral background - like say a name set onto a baseball card. What you would do is carefully cut out that piece. Remember, you're cutting on a negative sheet so care has to be taken lest you damage even more which means no watches, rings or any buttoned shirts - strippers were the guys you could easily spot in a print shop because they usually wore latex gloves (fingerprints and human oil) and these long sleeve coats to prevent further damage to the negatives. That cut out piece is then taped to the side of the negative to indicate a strip-in - a clear indication that a plate is not to be made from that negative. The new negative, with the name alone, is then carefully cut and placed into the open spot in the negative. Using lithotape, it's then taped into position - carefully aligning the strip-in using a t-square or double-triangle method - assuring it's not going to reproduce crooked.
Finally, after stripping in, the (now working negative) is re-shot for final master neg and ready to be plated. EDITED: Depending on the placement and complexity of the corrected neg - the amendment neg could become the master neg and shot for plate.
I believe that the point where the name was cut-out, in anticipation for a strip-in, was where this infamous error occured. The stripper probably forgot to tape the cut onto the working neg - or it fell or was torn off - and it was assumed that it was the final master neg to be plated. Or (and I believe this to be the case - a new master neg was in fact produced, but that the incorrect neg was used for plating) Well, then, it was off to the races. Plates were made and the presses started up.
Clearly, since the error was caught, when the first proofs were being pulled - checking for saturation, coverage, alignment, and other goobers - someone noticed that one card had no name. The presses were then "stopped" (technically, and usually, you don't 'stop the press' - you stop the feeder from grabbing more stock while the problem is addressed) Someone either called for a strip-in and the neg was reshot then re-plated, or most likely the correct negative/plate was found and put into the press.
The next part of the "error" was likely this series of events:
The original press run was probably marked by putting a sliver of paper while the new prints were being printed. You do that for a variety of reasons, but in this specific case because it would be a marker to indicate where the throwaway product was to begin. You don't 'get rid of' the production for several reasons - but for this discussion - it's likely due to the fact it's a hassle to move the beds (or their contents) in and out of the bed. Now, if that paper was dislodged or plain ignored - then that stack of newly printed cards would go off to drying and forgotten. The cutters were then ordered to do their job and... the rest is history.
*For a visual of the old-school stripping process - I would highly suggest renting the movie "To Live And Die In L.A." with Willem Dafoe as the counterfeiter extraordinare. (one of my all-time favorite films and the reason I was nearly kicked out of college) Check out the beginning of the film to see the process of printing done the traditional way - including a scene where he strips in the bank note numbers.
I apologize in advance for the length of this post. I tried hard to keep it focused and to point, but the processes discussed were by defintion "technical" - and that always means 'lengthy'. (and why printers used to make super good money)
In a nutshell - here it is:
Firstly, you have to remember that the techniques I'm about to discuss are no longer used - digital printing having replaced most of the old school lithography press techniques. Some of the details I'm going to gloss over because, truthfully, it's too detailed for the average collector to grasp, and more importantly does not address what happened, or at least my opinion of what I think happened.
Okay, old school technique for printing was to take artwork - photographs (notice I said 'photos' not 'images'), graphics, etc - and have them scanned in via barrel or drum scanner. This was sort of a giant version of what we now call a desktop scanner. (simple graphics were created on what was called the 'pasteboard' and then shot via flat bed camera or processed via latex plate using electrostatic adhesion - xerographic process) The photograph or artwork would then be carefully rolled onto a large drum and spun while a light sensor loaded the colors a byte at a time into a large mainframe-type computer. When you're talking about a sheet of baseball cards, we're talking about each and every photograph having to be scanned in separately and then literally pasted together to form a single large image - what's called Stripping In. (note - this is important to remember for this discussion)
And then from this single large image would be re-shot (four different times with four different negatives for each negative/plate/color) and outputted via final negs - 100% of the final print size. Usually at this stage a single Waterproof would also be created. Waterproofs were single color acetates that mimicked the inks being printed onto paper - meaning all four CMYK colors would be aligned and taped together so that any defects - dust specks, cuts, etc - can be spotted & highlighted with a grease pencil. At which point the printer will have to re-do/correct that section or element of the scanned piece. And once all the doodads & goobers are accounted for - and the designer/art director signs off on it - four final master negatives are produced. It's these negatives that will be shot via UV light to photosensitive aluminum plates. (skipped a few details since it's not relevant)
Now here is where I believe the NNOF was created.
When press operations or the design team were reviewing the Waterproof - something must've been wrong with one part - a name was messed up somehow. Perhaps it was scratched, or there was a dust element, or something else. But something that required that the name be cut out, new artwork via typesetting ordered, glued or waxed onto pasteboard, shot, neg made, and then stripped into the open space in that specific negative (obviously the black neg) that held the original damaged name.
That name was irrelevant to the printing process as it was just another young player. It's important to understand this mindset because too many times modern collectors assign bizarre conspiracy theories as to why certain cards were "selected" for alterations. While that's true today, circa 2009, as manufacturers have intentionally created in these so-called errors to generate interest in the hobby; in 1989 when these Topps card were being printed - errors were just that - plain old mistakes that often get by because high quality standards hadn't been set or expected by the collecting market. Blank backs, wrong backs, missing foil, etc. were very common back then with the high production rates of the early 90's.
Okay, back on point.
When you strip-in an element (BTW it might be amusing for some to note the job classifieds back then - you'd see an opening for a "stripper" issued by a print shop or design studio. That used to cause giggles back in the day) What you did was this:
Let's say that the damaged element was in a simple field - a bit of type sitting in a neutral background - like say a name set onto a baseball card. What you would do is carefully cut out that piece. Remember, you're cutting on a negative sheet so care has to be taken lest you damage even more which means no watches, rings or any buttoned shirts - strippers were the guys you could easily spot in a print shop because they usually wore latex gloves (fingerprints and human oil) and these long sleeve coats to prevent further damage to the negatives. That cut out piece is then taped to the side of the negative to indicate a strip-in - a clear indication that a plate is not to be made from that negative. The new negative, with the name alone, is then carefully cut and placed into the open spot in the negative. Using lithotape, it's then taped into position - carefully aligning the strip-in using a t-square or double-triangle method - assuring it's not going to reproduce crooked.
Finally, after stripping in, the (now working negative) is re-shot for final master neg and ready to be plated. EDITED: Depending on the placement and complexity of the corrected neg - the amendment neg could become the master neg and shot for plate.
I believe that the point where the name was cut-out, in anticipation for a strip-in, was where this infamous error occured. The stripper probably forgot to tape the cut onto the working neg - or it fell or was torn off - and it was assumed that it was the final master neg to be plated. Or (and I believe this to be the case - a new master neg was in fact produced, but that the incorrect neg was used for plating) Well, then, it was off to the races. Plates were made and the presses started up.
Clearly, since the error was caught, when the first proofs were being pulled - checking for saturation, coverage, alignment, and other goobers - someone noticed that one card had no name. The presses were then "stopped" (technically, and usually, you don't 'stop the press' - you stop the feeder from grabbing more stock while the problem is addressed) Someone either called for a strip-in and the neg was reshot then re-plated, or most likely the correct negative/plate was found and put into the press.
The next part of the "error" was likely this series of events:
The original press run was probably marked by putting a sliver of paper while the new prints were being printed. You do that for a variety of reasons, but in this specific case because it would be a marker to indicate where the throwaway product was to begin. You don't 'get rid of' the production for several reasons - but for this discussion - it's likely due to the fact it's a hassle to move the beds (or their contents) in and out of the bed. Now, if that paper was dislodged or plain ignored - then that stack of newly printed cards would go off to drying and forgotten. The cutters were then ordered to do their job and... the rest is history.
*For a visual of the old-school stripping process - I would highly suggest renting the movie "To Live And Die In L.A." with Willem Dafoe as the counterfeiter extraordinare. (one of my all-time favorite films and the reason I was nearly kicked out of college) Check out the beginning of the film to see the process of printing done the traditional way - including a scene where he strips in the bank note numbers.
BunchOBull
Active member
Thank you for some great info Lance. I've shared this with everyone.
