2008 Razor Metal Gold Auto vs. 2010 Pro Debut Gold Non-Auto

[HoustonTeams4Me]

Razor gold /25 will dominate over Topps Debut base
Shouldn't any auto /25 dominate over any base card?

The Razor Gold/25 Auto will definitely dominate over Topps Debut "Base"....

I believe you are 100% correct that any auto/25 would dominate over any "base" card of the same player (as long as we're speaking simply base, no SP or error type card), though I don't believe that any auto/25 would dominate over any base "parallel" /25 (or even /50, /75, /100 in some instance's depending upon brand). I proved this earlier when someone brought up Longoria as an example, I showed the Tri-Star Auto of Longoria #d/25 as compared to the Topps Chrome E.Longoria Red Refractor/25 of the same year & there was a pretty BIG difference in SV (from completed Ebay auction's).

As for anyone thinking it is just the economy that's the reason for Razor not selling well, well that's just not true (but I guess everyone's entitled to thier own belief's so...eh).

 

[Moonlight Graham]

At least I showed an example. You couldn't show us one example... not ONE. Why don't you prove it to us? Show us where a 3rd year un-autographed Minor League card has EVER been worth more than an auto with the same print-run from 3 years earlier. You couldn't even do it with Major League rookie cards.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desirable

You're looking at price, I'm looking at desirability. One does not necessitate the other.

Here's my logic: Search "razor gold au*" on eBay. I count a whopping 11 completed Razor Metal gold auctions with seven sales. Of those seven sales, five are from BIN/BO and two are from auctions.

Now look at the current auction style listings. Any? Three auctions with RIDICULOUS starting bids and the rest are EXTREMELY high BIN's. These people holding rare Razor cards are fishing for offers. Desperately. 38 copies, 29 copies: no one wanted these to begin with.

No one is bidding, no one cares. The cards are not desirable.

I'm not buying third year minor league cards OR Razor because they BOTH stink.

I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics with you. All anyone in this hobby cares about is price realized. The amount of listings is meaningless since it is the off-season and the Topps cards are not even on the market. And even when they are, of course there will be more listings, it's a brand new product. And why do you think 2007 Donruss Elite Matt Wieters autos/799 outsell most of his 2009 true rookie autos numbered to far less? Is that a figment of our imagination?

You keep making comparisons that simply do not work.

Look. Topps better than Razor. Score better than Razor. Donruss Elite better than Razor. Just better than Razor. Tri-Star better than Razor. You want to make an accurate comparison? Try using Scoreboard. SB and Razor are about equal as far as popularity goes.

I'm thinking that your signature likely suggests bias in this discussion... as for my opinion, I think my Matt Wieters Gold Auto BGS 9.5 will outperform any Pro Debut card issud by Topps. And I would also expect other companies to cannibalize Razor cards to produce their own trapped autographed cards as well.

 

[huntah]

Well, I don't know what to reply to this. Economy IS the reason period.

I haven't saw Razor pomising not to sell contract in threads, but if you say so it's probably true they did. Contracts are an asset that can be bought and sold. If they are not planning coming back into baseball they should sell them, if they want to make a return when economy is good they shoudln't sell them because people will remember it.

I know Razor have made several mistakes in the past, but I believe they learned from those mistakes and I don't think they have made the same mistakes twice. Every body knows it would all be different if the Razor Metal cards both base parallel and autos had been packed within the signature serie. That would have been a total success. After that, Lettermen would have more credebility and wouldn't been selling at 0.99$ for /20 cards..

Another thing, you are acting like they already sold the contracts? They told they won't sell them and so far so good. Why are you complaining?

Huntah
Easy to blame the economy for not allowing Alonso gold Razor autos from reaching $100. Yeah, that's right. It's the economy as the only thing hoding that card back

As far as Razor not making the promise to not sell.....in several threads

As far as Razor doesn't owe the customer anything and they can sell off the contracts if they want to -------- true, they can do what they want. They already showed true colors when they promised (back in November of 2008) that Metal would not mirror Sig Series and stated that they would never screw those who initally invested in their Sig Series ---------but in the end, they did exactly that. BG did apologize for going against his word

If Razor had intentions on selling off contracts then they never should have pimped and promoted the exclusivity thing from before the product even reached the customers. That was their #1 promotion and sales pitch

IF UD would have changed their mind within a year and sold off contracts on MJ, LJ, Gretzky, etc than collectors would have the right to be angry with them about that as well.


I bought Razor and still buy some from time to time if it fits a need. I however call it as I see it


Razor gold /25 will dominate over Topps Debut base
Shouldn't any auto /25 dominate over any base card?

 

[kentuckyderby]

For such a brutal economy I am still seeing some nice sales of other items and think BDP and EEE will continue to bring in some decent bank. The economy blows and people have less extra cash for stuff like cards BUT that is not the only reason for failing. If that's the case, how are other companies still in business?

I could cut and paste the couple of threads where Razor refused to promise not to sell off exclusive contracts but no need to

The only reason why I even brought up the possibility that Razor might sell off the contracts is because some mentioned how Razor still has some exclusives in Sig Series that could/will bring home a nice pay day down the road

Sure there's a chance that the Sig Series exclusives might come thru big time
Sure there's a chance that the Sig Series exclsuives will be sold before then

As far as Razor learning from mistakes. On some things yes. On constantly returning to board and getting into arguments with members, no.

I am looking forward to Razor Poker 2010 although I think the best pull of playing in a tournament hoping to qualify for 2010 WSOP is still not 100% written in stone since leagility thing (21 years old to play in WSOP)

 

[Sean_C]

It may just be me, but I'd rather see people talk about things out in the open in front of an audience of hundreds of captivated collectors on a hobby message board than to have some sort of debate at a card show where maybe 15 people might be able to witness it unless it were taped and posted on youtube.

The issues being "debated" don't need much prep time to discuss, and all sides have equal and fair amounts of time to discuss, counter, and rebut anything they like (IE: as much as they would like to post).

My guess is that you'd prefer some kind of "panel" format that would

A). help promote your brand again
B). give your product some sort of perceived legitimacy in the hobby
C). limit the amount of people that can confront you

As for NYCrulesU's comment about a thinly veiled threat of violence, I don't know the whole history, but I do have to say that it makes me even more curious as to why you were asking for information about me via PM.

[quote="NYCrulesU"
Thanks again and I do hope I have the chance to meet a few of my FCB friends in person someday (espcially NYCrules, Jeff N. and a few others).
BG

An obvious veiled threat of violence. Like I said Brian, your true colors.[/quote]

NO, ACTUALLY I would like to debate you in person when you are not hiding behind a computer screen.
I have a feeling it would be quite a different situation.
MY true colors are none of your concern and well documented in the hobby in last 25 years (before your birth?).
BG[/quote]

 

[NYCrulesU]

It may just be me, but I'd rather see people talk about things out in the open in front of an audience of hundreds of captivated collectors on a hobby message board than to have some sort of debate at a card show where maybe 15 people might be able to witness it unless it were taped and posted on youtube.

The issues being "debated" don't need much prep time to discuss, and all sides have equal and fair amounts of time to discuss, counter, and rebut anything they like (IE: as much as they would like to post).

My guess is that you'd prefer some kind of "panel" format that would

A). help promote your brand again
B). give your product some sort of perceived legitimacy in the hobby
C). limit the amount of people that can confront you

As for NYCrulesU's comment about a thinly veiled threat of violence, I don't know the whole history, but I do have to say that it makes me even more curious as to why you were asking for information about me via PM.

[quote="NYCrulesU"
Thanks again and I do hope I have the chance to meet a few of my FCB friends in person someday (espcially NYCrules, Jeff N. and a few others).
BG

An obvious veiled threat of violence. Like I said Brian, your true colors.

NO, ACTUALLY I would like to debate you in person when you are not hiding behind a computer screen.
I have a feeling it would be quite a different situation.
MY true colors are none of your concern and well documented in the hobby in last 25 years (before your birth?).
BG[/quote][/quote]



Sean, who was your post directed at? Brian? I'm curious as to who asked for your information via PM. There's no history between Brian and I. He simply cannot take negative criticism and he clearly threatened myself and Jeff N. (only two formally named) and a few others. Then, after denying it was meant as a threat that he only wanted to "debate" with me when I'm not "hiding behind a computer screen", he immediately PM'd me asking me where I live so that he can come "pay me a visit".

I am seldom wrong about people. It's my job to read people, to be observant. I saw his true colors (an arrogant, cocky, smug person) peeking through in several posts of his and called him on it. He did nothing but prove me 100% correct by making veiled threats towards me and anyone else that doesn't bow down to him and his products.

I don't have a problem with anyone that likes his product. I take issue with his used car salesman tactics of pimping his product. The whole cut -n- run he pulled with their baseball products is another issue that adds to my opinion of him and Razor. I speak my mind. Clearly he couldn't handle that and became enraged, to the point of making threats of physical violence.

 

[011873]

There really is no reason why Razor WOULDNT sell off some of their exclusive contracts considering they arent doing cards now. Brian is either losing money on them or isnt making more money on them because they are idle.

Think about it, even taking Brian's word that UD DOESNT have anything to do with Razor (not getting into that), now that UD doesnt have to follow MLB's rules, why wouldnt Upper Deck purchase the rights for the top guys (T. Beckham, Pedro, Smoak, etc)?

How much clout would UD series one have if theres base cards of Smoak, Pedro, etc followed by SP Letterman auto patches of the same guys followed by SPX autos of them too while Topps trots out "2010 rookie cards" of Choo Freeman, JD Closser and others?

 

[HPC]

How much clout would UD series one have if theres base cards of Smoak, Pedro, etc followed by SP Letterman auto patches of the same guys followed by SPX autos of them too while Topps trots out "2010 rookie cards" of Choo Freeman, JD Closser and others?

I literally lol'd at that part

:lol:

 

[nyc3]

Then, after denying it was meant as a threat that he only wanted to "debate" with me when I'm not "hiding behind a computer screen", he immediately PM'd me asking me where I live so that he can come "pay me a visit".

Wow class act right there, I really hope you are making this up cause thats not only sad but pathetic. I am jealous, all I got was lawsuit threats when I pointed out a few questionable cut signatures. Any one else still wondering why basically no one trusted this clown from the get go?

 

[allstars]

I fully expect Razor to sell off all their exclusives' rights. Why keep them when they aren't making anything off them. They aren't making cards of those players, so why waste owning the rights. They quit on everyone who spent money on their baseball products, why would anyone expect any less than a complete washout. They don't care about baseball or who bought their baseball products, they only care about cut-autos and poker cards.

What if nobody's buying? How much are exclusive contracts for guys that have already had cards worth? Until they can be put on MLB cards with MLB unis I don't think they have alot of value, and I doubt that, although BG would love to sell them, that anybody's buying.