2011 LEAF LEGENDS OF SPORT TRADING CARDS

[ThoseBackPages]

Is Tiger still UD only? i cant imagine a Golf Set without him in it

 

[Leaf]

Is Tiger still UD only? i cant imagine a Golf Set without him in it

Why not?
Its all aboput price point and production level....

including tiger means making a s-load of cases and the market cannot support that!
BG

 

[Ty Hope]

I'll have to sit this product out. Will be fun to watch the breaks though.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Is Tiger still UD only? i cant imagine a Golf Set without him in it

Why not?

The average card collector knows who Tiger Woods is, that's why! LOL

 

[James52411]

Brian,

Thanks for all the interesting information on the manufacturing process. It's very informative; I never would have guessed $5 per card simply to print them. The fact that Topps often pays more than the eBay value for the autographs they include in packs in many instances is one of the things that is insane about the hobby. It hurts everyone in the hobby because collectors overpay for product and hobby dealers and distributors get stuck with it. I'm guessing this is part of the cost of doing business with MLBPA (they require a minimum signing fee), but perhaps I'm wrong.

You know your business far better than I, but I think you are absolutely correct that the hobby will not support a "standard" unlicensed baseball product with 2-4 hits per box of 24 packs. That's exactly the sort of product I like purchasing, but I'm a Cubs collector and without logos I'm just not going to be interested.

Good to see you on the boards and that you haven't followed through on not posting on FCB anymore.

 

[matfanofold]

Brian, I think the hobby as a whole is fairly capable of consuming another pack driven product in the form/mold of a 1 or 2 hit per box product that features base cards. The only question that remains to be seen is can LEAF produce a baseball product that can deliver on all fronts (quality, originality, value, checklist, ect..)..? Dont get me wrong, I love the lottery style products like RR and such, and the 'all hit' stuff like Valiant, but to producr a comprehensive set like topps (or even bowman) takes a bit more effort to do.

I for one would welcome a traditional baseball offering from LEAF!

I can do it and have the ability and willingness to look at it (and we are looking at this for our SECOND Golf set).
However, I know for a fact the market cannot and will not consume safely 2000 cases of a Leaf Baseball Draft product.
To make the product like that would be completely irresponsible to our dealers/distributors.

I personally do NOT think an unlicensed company can deliver value on all fronts with that limitation.
HOWEVER, I think we give ourselves the best chance to compete by creating products that are designed to DIFFER from the standard Topps products.

I feel pretty strongly that the 12-15 standard items Topps makes are more than enough in that style (actually, too many in my opinion.. I mean really, who needs Updates/Highlights for real!).....

Hopefully, we can find a way to create a more affordable entry level while still maintaining our product's identity and the strong value that accompanies that.

BG

Much of what you said is obviously hard to deny, however you and I disagree on a single point here. Back in the 90's LEAF was an excellent altnative to the traditional topps sets being pushed out. Forging a brand that consisted of awesome photography, interesting and innovative inserts, and yearly designs that stood ahead of everyone in my humble opinion. And this was when they also had Fleer and Donruss to contend with.

You say Topps has the market covered and/or saturated in this specific area and to that end is the reason you do not see any light, however for the exact same reasons I feel it would be a perfect opportunity to re-introduce the LEAF brand as a legitimate baseball prospect product that offers something for everyone, at every price point much like bowman does.

Sure, 2000 cases may be overkill but 500 to a thousand would do very well, again IF, a product could be made with a reachable price point for everyone, original and inspired design like the original LEAF brand, and multi tiered chase cards to fit the collecting preferences and price points of everyone interested. I see zero reason a one or two hit, 24 pack box with a strong checklist and welcoming variables should not do exceedingly well.

Just my 2...

 

[allstars]

Brian do you feel like Topps looks at Leaf as a serious competitor? I find it hard to believe that they do. They have a 90%+ share of the baseball card market and the only MLB license.

 

[Titans74]

Brian do you feel like Topps looks at Leaf as a serious competitor? I find it hard to believe that they do. They have a 90%+ share of the baseball card market and the only MLB license.

Topps has zero reason to see Leaf as serious or a competitor.

 

[GAbballplayer148]

Brian do you feel like Topps looks at Leaf as a serious competitor? I find it hard to believe that they do. They have a 90%+ share of the baseball card market and the only MLB license.

Topps has zero reason to see Leaf as serious or a competitor.

Topps kinda just sued Leaf a few months ago...I'm pretty sure Topps sees something in Leaf.

 

[allstars]

Brian do you feel like Topps looks at Leaf as a serious competitor? I find it hard to believe that they do. They have a 90%+ share of the baseball card market and the only MLB license.

Topps has zero reason to see Leaf as serious or a competitor.

Topps kinda just sued Leaf a few months ago...I'm pretty sure Topps sees something in Leaf.

What was the outcome of the lawsuit?

 

[Leaf]

Brian,

Thanks for all the interesting information on the manufacturing process. It's very informative; I never would have guessed $5 per card simply to print them. The fact that Topps often pays more than the eBay value for the autographs they include in packs in many instances is one of the things that is insane about the hobby. It hurts everyone in the hobby because collectors overpay for product and hobby dealers and distributors get stuck with it. I'm guessing this is part of the cost of doing business with MLBPA (they require a minimum signing fee), but perhaps I'm wrong.

You know your business far better than I, but I think you are absolutely correct that the hobby will not support a "standard" unlicensed baseball product with 2-4 hits per box of 24 packs. That's exactly the sort of product I like purchasing, but I'm a Cubs collector and without logos I'm just not going to be interested.

Good to see you on the boards and that you haven't followed through on not posting on FCB anymore.

I thought I was out but you guys PULLED ME BACK IN...

I LOVE FCB!!!!!!

 

[Leaf]

Brian, I think the hobby as a whole is fairly capable of consuming another pack driven product in the form/mold of a 1 or 2 hit per box product that features base cards. The only question that remains to be seen is can LEAF produce a baseball product that can deliver on all fronts (quality, originality, value, checklist, ect..)..? Dont get me wrong, I love the lottery style products like RR and such, and the 'all hit' stuff like Valiant, but to producr a comprehensive set like topps (or even bowman) takes a bit more effort to do.

I for one would welcome a traditional baseball offering from LEAF!

I can do it and have the ability and willingness to look at it (and we are looking at this for our SECOND Golf set).
However, I know for a fact the market cannot and will not consume safely 2000 cases of a Leaf Baseball Draft product.
To make the product like that would be completely irresponsible to our dealers/distributors.

I personally do NOT think an unlicensed company can deliver value on all fronts with that limitation.
HOWEVER, I think we give ourselves the best chance to compete by creating products that are designed to DIFFER from the standard Topps products.

I feel pretty strongly that the 12-15 standard items Topps makes are more than enough in that style (actually, too many in my opinion.. I mean really, who needs Updates/Highlights for real!).....

Hopefully, we can find a way to create a more affordable entry level while still maintaining our product's identity and the strong value that accompanies that.

BG

Much of what you said is obviously hard to deny, however you and I disagree on a single point here. Back in the 90's LEAF was an excellent altnative to the traditional topps sets being pushed out. Forging a brand that consisted of awesome photography, interesting and innovative inserts, and yearly designs that stood ahead of everyone in my humble opinion. And this was when they also had Fleer and Donruss to contend with.

You say Topps has the market covered and/or saturated in this specific area and to that end is the reason you do not see any light, however for the exact same reasons I feel it would be a perfect opportunity to re-introduce the LEAF brand as a legitimate baseball prospect product that offers something for everyone, at every price point much like bowman does.

Sure, 2000 cases may be overkill but 500 to a thousand would do very well, again IF, a product could be made with a reachable price point for everyone, original and inspired design like the original LEAF brand, and multi tiered chase cards to fit the collecting preferences and price points of everyone interested. I see zero reason a one or two hit, 24 pack box with a strong checklist and welcoming variables should not do exceedingly well.

Just my 2...

Noted and respected.
BG

 

[Leaf]

Brian do you feel like Topps looks at Leaf as a serious competitor? I find it hard to believe that they do. They have a 90%+ share of the baseball card market and the only MLB license.

I am not allowed to comment on certain things which make it very clear they find me a competitor/nusiance/troublemaker.

I raise the bar for them. While I dont affect their sales significantly, I raise the expectations YOU GUYS have of Topps which makes us VERY concerning for them.

In addition, they recently resigned Babe Ruth to an exclusive deal... They may not know it, but I played a MAJOR role in them having to open the wallet.....

The fact is that what we are doing and our understanding of what collectors want, Topps should be concerned....

What would happen if Panini bought Leaf tomorrow? With their money and our vision, Topps would/should/better be very concious of our potential........

BG

p.s.- I am not saying that any particular company has made Leaf a formal offer.....

 

[Leaf]

Brian do you feel like Topps looks at Leaf as a serious competitor? I find it hard to believe that they do. They have a 90%+ share of the baseball card market and the only MLB license.

Topps has zero reason to see Leaf as serious or a competitor.

Topps kinda just sued Leaf a few months ago...I'm pretty sure Topps sees something in Leaf.

QFT 100000000%.

Titans74 is not a fan of mine and clearly doesnt have first hand knowledge of what is going on behind the scenes.

BG

p.s.- If Michael Eisner asks in a company meeting, "who is this Leaf guy? and what is he doing?", does that mean they see you as competition.....

 

[Leaf]

Brian do you feel like Topps looks at Leaf as a serious competitor? I find it hard to believe that they do. They have a 90%+ share of the baseball card market and the only MLB license.

Topps has zero reason to see Leaf as serious or a competitor.

Topps kinda just sued Leaf a few months ago...I'm pretty sure Topps sees something in Leaf.

What was the outcome of the lawsuit?

Information should be available soon, but if you have seen our 2012 Rookie Retro order form, you can make your own deductions.
BG

 

[Casebusters]

Brian, I think the hobby as a whole is fairly capable of consuming another pack driven product in the form/mold of a 1 or 2 hit per box product that features base cards. The only question that remains to be seen is can LEAF produce a baseball product that can deliver on all fronts (quality, originality, value, checklist, ect..)..? Dont get me wrong, I love the lottery style products like RR and such, and the 'all hit' stuff like Valiant, but to producr a comprehensive set like topps (or even bowman) takes a bit more effort to do.

I for one would welcome a traditional baseball offering from LEAF!

I can do it and have the ability and willingness to look at it (and we are looking at this for our SECOND Golf set).
However, I know for a fact the market cannot and will not consume safely 2000 cases of a Leaf Baseball Draft product.
To make the product like that would be completely irresponsible to our dealers/distributors.

I personally do NOT think an unlicensed company can deliver value on all fronts with that limitation.
HOWEVER, I think we give ourselves the best chance to compete by creating products that are designed to DIFFER from the standard Topps products.

I feel pretty strongly that the 12-15 standard items Topps makes are more than enough in that style (actually, too many in my opinion.. I mean really, who needs Updates/Highlights for real!).....

Hopefully, we can find a way to create a more affordable entry level while still maintaining our product's identity and the strong value that accompanies that.
BG

There are people who collect regular cards and low end inserts...
I prefer products with Quantity & Variety over limited Auto only products.
I would take Topps Update over any Gambling Product (including TTT, Bowman Sterling, etc) every time!
As a reseller, I like products where the autos & GU are a bonus rather than having to depend on a huge hit to break even.
That's why I can't open these type products to resell singles for my customers.
IMO, Manufacturers make these types of products as a one time sale, from dealer to buyer. You buy the pack, open it and you keep it.
Otherwise you end up losing money on a majority of what you've pulled.
But if you are opening to keep whatever you pull then you can't lose.
I'm not saying not to make these, but like others have said, It would be nice to get base cards, low end inserts, and getting a chance to hit a big card without the big risk.
Also if "the 12-15 standard items Topps makes are more than enough in that style", then you won't get those customers that like those types of products..

 

[ChasHawk]

Much of what you said is obviously hard to deny, however you and I disagree on a single point here. Back in the 90's LEAF was an excellent altnative to the traditional topps sets being pushed out. Forging a brand that consisted of awesome photography, interesting and innovative inserts, and yearly designs that stood ahead of everyone in my humble opinion. And this was when they also had Fleer and Donruss to contend with.

You say Topps has the market covered and/or saturated in this specific area and to that end is the reason you do not see any light, however for the exact same reasons I feel it would be a perfect opportunity to re-introduce the LEAF brand as a legitimate baseball prospect product that offers something for everyone, at every price point much like bowman does.

Sure, 2000 cases may be overkill but 500 to a thousand would do very well, again IF, a product could be made with a reachable price point for everyone, original and inspired design like the original LEAF brand, and multi tiered chase cards to fit the collecting preferences and price points of everyone interested. I see zero reason a one or two hit, 24 pack box with a strong checklist and welcoming variables should not do exceedingly well.

Just my 2...

The one reason base cards wouldn't be viable is that people will overlook the lack of logos on hits,
but base cards without logos/team names are even more boring than regular base cards.


Casebusters - you lose just as much, if not more money busting products with base cards.

 

[Casebusters]

Much of what you said is obviously hard to deny, however you and I disagree on a single point here. Back in the 90's LEAF was an excellent altnative to the traditional topps sets being pushed out. Forging a brand that consisted of awesome photography, interesting and innovative inserts, and yearly designs that stood ahead of everyone in my humble opinion. And this was when they also had Fleer and Donruss to contend with.

You say Topps has the market covered and/or saturated in this specific area and to that end is the reason you do not see any light, however for the exact same reasons I feel it would be a perfect opportunity to re-introduce the LEAF brand as a legitimate baseball prospect product that offers something for everyone, at every price point much like bowman does.

Sure, 2000 cases may be overkill but 500 to a thousand would do very well, again IF, a product could be made with a reachable price point for everyone, original and inspired design like the original LEAF brand, and multi tiered chase cards to fit the collecting preferences and price points of everyone interested. I see zero reason a one or two hit, 24 pack box with a strong checklist and welcoming variables should not do exceedingly well.

Just my 2...

The one reason base cards wouldn't be viable is that people will overlook the lack of logos on hits,
but base cards without logos/team names are even more boring than regular base cards.

Casebusters - you lose just as much, if not more money busting products with base cards.

well, In my 13 years of busting cases online, Ive made more profit on low end products, with a lot of cards, than with products that depend on the big hits..
Since BG was talking about Update,
I bought 1 jumbo case for under $500, sold 1/3 of the cards out of the case and took in over $1000 and the most expensive card I sold out of it was $15.
and I still have 2000 cards (base and inserts) to sell

 

[allstars]

Brian do you feel like Topps looks at Leaf as a serious competitor? I find it hard to believe that they do. They have a 90%+ share of the baseball card market and the only MLB license.

I am not allowed to comment on certain things which make it very clear they find me a competitor/nusiance/troublemaker.

I raise the bar for them. While I dont affect their sales significantly, I raise the expectations YOU GUYS have of Topps which makes us VERY concerning for them.

In addition, they recently resigned Babe Ruth to an exclusive deal... They may not know it, but I played a MAJOR role in them having to open the wallet.....

The fact is that what we are doing and our understanding of what collectors want, Topps should be concerned....

What would happen if Panini bought Leaf tomorrow? With their money and our vision, Topps would/should/better be very concious of our potential........

BG

p.s.- I am not saying that any particular company has made Leaf a formal offer.....

Why would Panini ever buy Leaf for other than the brand name itself? What else does Leaf have that Panini could possibly Benefit from? Just because Topps brings suit vs Leaf doesn't mean they view Leaf as a viable source of competition (they don't), it simply means that their attorneys see rights of the company they represent violated enough to warrant legal action. Really Brian, how long do you think the tiny niche of collectors are going to be fooled into buying the grab-bag products you've been putting out? You have made a few nice looking products lately, but when it comes down to it you have yet to make a single technological development to what we know as a trading card. You' e done nothing but knockoff what the innovators before you have done. No innovations whatsoever. And now you're giving your fans a shot at pulling an Adolf ****** autograph. Bravo Brian.

 

[goldenegg1]

Guess Brian was reading when we were all spit-balling suggestions a few months back. Perhaps an olympic or ***** league themed release is next.

While I love multi-sport releases, I'll be sitting on my hands for this one.

Unfortunately, Topps just got the Olympic license, while the cards look nice, I'm sure it will be all jacked up by the time it hits shelves.