2013 Leaf Best of Basketball - Break 6/3 9:33pm

[arod305]

I agree with you 100% Allen...

I would also like to know why there are so many 8.5 modern stuff, thats just dumb.

Regardless, I will not be breaking anymore leaf, stuff is a joke. I really hope you send Allen something to make up for him losing 1/5th of his money Leaf.

@Leaf I am looking forward to hearing your excuse how every card can't be a case hit. My point is pulling a kevin love auto while paying $265 into a break like this is unacceptable. He shouldn't even be in this product (and I'm a UCLA Alumni).

Allen

 

[arod305]

Also, Thank you to Andrew for the break.

 

[kerryfan5]

Big risk big reward product.

 

[Bruin7]

Big risk big reward product.

I totally agree with you but that card has no business being in this product.

Allen

 

[sigma_chi]

The Best of Baseball was full of 8.5's last year too. I would say a vast majority were either 8.5's or just slabbed Authentic. Didn't really pay attention to football.

 

[Bruin7]

I sent [MENTION=1948]Leaf[/MENTION] a PM earlier this morning. Waited all day but no response. I wasn't asking for a hand out rather the reasoning behind inserting a card like that into a "Best of Basketball" product. I know I'm just one buyer and it won't make a difference but I will never purchase another Leaf product ever again. That is for sure. Worst part is I had a stack of cut signatures to send into his Executive Cuts process. I guess they will stay unslabbed.

Allen

 

[arod305]

I understand the high risk v. high reward in products, trust me I have opened a ton of five star and nt football in the past few months. However, in a product called greats of basketball, Kevin Love shouldn't sniff the checklist unless its a rare exquisite. Also, I mean how in the hell does Daryll Dawkins who you can buy autos of for .99 makes this product?

As for the 8.5, I understand the slabbed cards in the product. However, unless its a jordan rookie or vintage stuff 8.5's are useless on newer cards.

The fact this stuff is hand packed and two out of the three boxes in the case may bring 40-50 bucks total just isn't right. I understand if there was a Jordan or lebron, but even the durant Bobby got barely pays for the pack. Just doesn't seem right to me, I don think Allen was looking for a handout. He opens a ton and I am sure has had many disappoints, but all he wanted was an explanation.

In Leaf's defense he did pm me today with his phone # and told me to call for an explanation, but I never was able to due to work

 

[Bruin7]

Thanks for the support [MENTION=1929]arod305[/MENTION] ! Funny how BG messaged you his number to call him. That was never offered to me. I also find it odd hearing how BG offers people partial money back if they're not pleased with their case at a show. That seems ridiculous to me. All I was asking for was a reason as to why Love was in this damn product.

Allen

 

[Leaf]

Thanks for the support @arod305 ! Funny how BG messaged you his number to call him. That was never offered to me. I also find it odd hearing how BG offers people partial money back if they're not pleased with their case at a show. That seems ridiculous to me. All I was asking for was a reason as to why Love was in this damn product.

Allen

I just got your message... as you can imagine, I am very busy running the company and can only check FCB email twice a day...
I am happy to discuss this with you... I would appreciate a little patience before making the assumption I don't care about the feedback. I think I have earned the chance to discuss before writing me off as one who doesnt care... Let me know if you wish to call or if you wish me to call.. BG

 

[Leaf]

I am going to discuss questions with these two gentleman, however I would like to restate the things I have said about every release like this to date:

1> This sort of release is NOT like a typical card release as all cards are obtained on the open market. For this reason, the return across the entire product is obviously not 100%. In the case of this product, I would estimate an average return across the whole product is 80% of FACTORY COST. This is WELL ABOVE industry standards.

2> The worst box in the product returns approximately $50, the best yields $15,000. Doing some simple math (using the above), the AVERAGE box returns $160 (actually a touch more with the price appreciation of a few guys including Lebron). HOWEVER because of the quantitiy and high value of the HIGH END cards, I would estimate the MEDIAN box yields $100-120. It is IMPOSSIBLE for EVERY box to yield $100 plus and still have the number of $400-15,000 hits this product has.

3> This product is HIGH RISK, HIGH REWARD. It is not for everyone... It is for guys that understand the risk associated with the extreme upside of the product as well.

4> On the buybacks themselves, we spend 9 months purchasing for this product. As I pointed out above, some players will skyrocket after we buy them.. A Treasures Gold Paul George was in the product I paid $100 for, now its well over $1000! Same for Harden treasures I paid $300-400 for, that are now $700-1200. On that same front, some players will inevitably soften up during that time.

5> on the Darryl Dawkins card which was questioned above, I think it is critical to note that Dr. J signed the card as well. That card is $60-80, which makes the box yield $65-90. On the Love card mentioned above, Kevin Love was/is a very popular player. If not for his injury, this card would be worth the $80-100 it probably cost 6 months ago. IN the last 90 days, this card has sold for $40-70, yielding $50-70 for the box.

6> If either of these cards had not been in the product, the box would have included a card of the exact same value/cost. That box was deisgned to have a $75 retail (which helps balance the large hits).

7> grades: 8.5 has become a standard grade for cards not made of plain paper or chrome. A majority of the newer cards in this release are BGS/PSA 9 or better on new cards.

Lastly, you should note the following... FACTORY COST ON THIS BOX WAS $200 (THIS IS WHAT WE SOLD IT FOR AND DISTRIBUTORS PAY A TOUCH LESS THAN THAT)
Our cost to make it using the 80% number above is $160, which is why the average box yields $160...
I understand market prices are much higher, however (a) we do not control this pricing in the secondary market and (b) this premium paid by the market on sealed boxes dilutes the return as the content doesnt change just because people choose to pay/charge higher prices...

With all that being said, I am always customer service oriented and will address the speicifc questions with those who are involved. I am not opposed to trading out players so that you have a player you deem more collectible (with the understanding that the value is what is is as stated above).

Hopefully, this explanation clarifies concerns. At then end of the day, I clearly pay more attention to our customers than any other manufacturer.
I hope my accessibility and communication reflect this.

I look forward to speaking to you guys.
Brian

p.s.- Why hasnt anyone mentioned the Durant in that case? the only one on ebay is listed at $599.99 or best offer... That is a sick card! Rare and highly desirable.
I think a fair look at a product like this is on the case level. In this case, this case yields MORE than we sold the product for!!! We LOST MONEY or close to it on this case!!!

 

[Bruin7]

I appreciate Leaf finally getting back to me. We are in communication via PM.

 

[arod305]

Brian,

I appreciate the detailed response, I have no further questions. Your math seems pretty relevant from what I can tell, thats really all I cared about. I am sure topps makes more than 20% on its releases. Your interaction with customers is one of a kind in this business

Thanks

I am going to discuss questions with these two gentleman, however I would like to restate the things I have said about every release like this to date:

1> This sort of release is NOT like a typical card release as all cards are obtained on the open market. For this reason, the return across the entire product is obviously not 100%. In the case of this product, I would estimate an average return across the whole product is 80% of FACTORY COST. This is WELL ABOVE industry standards.

2> The worst box in the product returns approximately $50, the best yields $15,000. Doing some simple math (using the above), the AVERAGE box returns $160 (actually a touch more with the price appreciation of a few guys including Lebron). HOWEVER because of the quantitiy and high value of the HIGH END cards, I would estimate the MEDIAN box yields $100-120. It is IMPOSSIBLE for EVERY box to yield $100 plus and still have the number of $400-15,000 hits this product has.

3> This product is HIGH RISK, HIGH REWARD. It is not for everyone... It is for guys that understand the risk associated with the extreme upside of the product as well.

4> On the buybacks themselves, we spend 9 months purchasing for this product. As I pointed out above, some players will skyrocket after we buy them.. A Treasures Gold Paul George was in the product I paid $100 for, now its well over $1000! Same for Harden treasures I paid $300-400 for, that are now $700-1200. On that same front, some players will inevitably soften up during that time.

5> on the Darryl Dawkins card which was questioned above, I think it is critical to note that Dr. J signed the card as well. That card is $60-80, which makes the box yield $65-90. On the Love card mentioned above, Kevin Love was/is a very popular player. If not for his injury, this card would be worth the $80-100 it probably cost 6 months ago. IN the last 90 days, this card has sold for $40-70, yielding $50-70 for the box.

6> If either of these cards had not been in the product, the box would have included a card of the exact same value/cost. That box was deisgned to have a $75 retail (which helps balance the large hits).

7> grades: 8.5 has become a standard grade for cards not made of plain paper or chrome. A majority of the newer cards in this release are BGS/PSA 9 or better on new cards.

Lastly, you should note the following... FACTORY COST ON THIS BOX WAS $200 (THIS IS WHAT WE SOLD IT FOR AND DISTRIBUTORS PAY A TOUCH LESS THAN THAT)
Our cost to make it using the 80% number above is $160, which is why the average box yields $160...
I understand market prices are much higher, however (a) we do not control this pricing in the secondary market and (b) this premium paid by the market on sealed boxes dilutes the return as the content doesnt change just because people choose to pay/charge higher prices...

With all that being said, I am always customer service oriented and will address the speicifc questions with those who are involved. I am not opposed to trading out players so that you have a player you deem more collectible (with the understanding that the value is what is is as stated above).

Hopefully, this explanation clarifies concerns. At then end of the day, I clearly pay more attention to our customers than any other manufacturer.
I hope my accessibility and communication reflect this.

I look forward to speaking to you guys.
Brian

p.s.- Why hasnt anyone mentioned the Durant in that case? the only one on ebay is listed at $599.99 or best offer... That is a sick card! Rare and highly desirable.
I think a fair look at a product like this is on the case level. In this case, this case yields MORE than we sold the product for!!! We LOST MONEY or close to it on this case!!!

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

I agree with you 100% Allen...

I would also like to know why there are so many 8.5 modern stuff, thats just dumb.

Regardless, I will not be breaking anymore leaf, stuff is a joke. I really hope you send Allen something to make up for him losing 1/5th of his money Leaf.

All you have to do with any of these "best of" breaks is search ebay completed auctions. All BG does is buy raw stuff on ebay, he drives it down the street to BGS, and whatever it grades it goes into a box. I busted a cases of Best of Hockey and found all 3 raw card completed auctions just about a month before the release of the product. All of the cards were 8.5 or 9. I'm done with any Leaf "best of" product because frankly, I'm not a gambler, I want to profit on a break and these "best of" breaks just don't work for me.

 

[devilsdevils]

[MENTION=1948]Leaf[/MENTION] Sealed case from Blowout. Not a sore loser but I won't buy this again. Learned my lesson. I just don't get it how some cases are awesome with three great hits and some miserable like this. This one was sad with two authentic ungraded and one graded 9 w/ 9 auto. The black box triple auto is in pretty rough shape.

 

[kerryfan5]

[MENTION=1948]Leaf[/MENTION] Sealed case from Blowout. Not a sore loser but I won't buy this again. Learned my lesson. I just don't get it how some cases are awesome with three great hits and some miserable like this. This one was sad with two authentic ungraded and one graded 9 w/ 9 auto. The black box triple auto is in pretty rough shape.
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That break looks pretty good. Not life changing but good.