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2021 Hall of Fame class...

finestkind

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2008
2,835
Boston
A lot of people didn't like Schilling as a person. He was a great pitcher. He rubbed too many people the wrong way after he was out of baseball.
 

banjar

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2015
1,844
Lafayette, Colorado
I agree on this point. I understand why some people hold his words against him, and in some cases I'm one of them. But the question is whether or not he earned it on the field. I think he did. Not a slam dunk, but if I had a vote I'd give it to him. 3000 strikeouts and one of the best postseason pitchers ever.

Politics should have nothing to do with the Hall of Fame, but that is our culture now.
 
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Randy Shields

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2008
2,163
OH-IO
I agree on this point. I understand why some people hold his words against him, and in some cases I'm one of them. But the question is whether or not he earned it on the field. I think he did. Not a slam dunk, but if I had a vote I'd give it to him. 3000 strikeouts and one of the best postseason pitchers ever.
I could not agree more as well. He would get my vote also.

So I'm just going to say it. This cancel culture needs to stop!
It's very dangerous and Anti-American, and that goes for whatever political views you have or wherever you stand on any issues.
This is the United States of America and you should have the right to your beliefs without the fear of being silenced, cancelled or perhaps in Schilling's case denied a HOF induction. There's no real concrete proof that that played a huge part in the voting but we're living in times where everyone is at each others throats if we disagree and it's the worst I've ever seen since I've been alive. We don't have to agree with each other but we do need to respect each other's opinions and not look at those that we do disagree with as our enemies.
 

Dilferules

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
982
Auburn, WA
I mean if the dude posts extremely negative things about journalists on Twitter and the Hall of Fame is voted on by...journalists...yeah that's gonna happen. This isn't about political party, Mariano Rivera supported the same president Schilling did and got 100% of the vote. This is the United States, which means Schilling has the freedom to say whatever hateful things he wants, but it does not absolve him of consequences for the things he says. People not wanting to vote for him for an award is going to be a consequence of the things Schilling says.
 

tpeichel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2008
15,510
I could not agree more as well. He would get my vote also.

So I'm just going to say it. This cancel culture needs to stop!
It's very dangerous and Anti-American, and that goes for whatever political views you have or wherever you stand on any issues.
This is the United States of America and you should have the right to your beliefs without the fear of being silenced, cancelled or perhaps in Schilling's case denied a HOF induction. There's no real concrete proof that that played a huge part in the voting but we're living in times where everyone is at each others throats if we disagree and it's the worst I've ever seen since I've been alive. We don't have to agree with each other but we do need to respect each other's opinions and not look at those that we do disagree with as our enemies.
It has to be his politics. The 15 other eligible pitchers with 3,000 Ks are in the Hall (excluding Clemens of course). And Schilling has a very strong case for being better than his contemporary in the HOF, Mike Mussina.
 

tpeichel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2008
15,510
I mean if the dude posts extremely negative things about journalists on Twitter and the Hall of Fame is voted on by...journalists...yeah that's gonna happen. This isn't about political party, Mariano Rivera supported the same president Schilling did and got 100% of the vote. This is the United States, which means Schilling has the freedom to say whatever hateful things he wants, but it does not absolve him of consequences for the things he says. People not wanting to vote for him for an award is going to be a consequence of the things Schilling says.
There is nothing in the guidance for HOF voters that says they should take into accounts the beliefs of the player in determining HOF worthiness. Everyone hated Ty Cobb but he is in.
 

Dilferules

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
982
Auburn, WA
There is nothing in the guidance for HOF voters that says they should take into accounts the beliefs of the player in determining HOF worthiness. Everyone hated Ty Cobb but he is in.
There's the famous "character clause", which fair or not influences the voters more on a borderline case than on an absolute lock like Ty Cobb.
 

tpeichel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2008
15,510
There's the famous "character clause", which fair or not influences the voters more on a borderline case than on an absolute lock like Ty Cobb.
What is an example of bad character that would keep Schilling out of the HOF?
 

DeliciousBacon

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2011
3,389
Warwick, RI
Pretty sure we've had this same exact conversation about Schilling the previous eight HOF elections. If voters aren't to vote him in, then there is absolutely NOTHING that can be done about it except whining. This isn't "cancel culture", this isn't "the way things are now", this has been happening for almost a decade now. This is America, he can say whatever bigoted bullshit he wants, and he is completely free to do so. But he is also completely free to suffer the consequences of those words, and if one of those consequences is that he hasn't been deemed fit to be voted into the HOF for almost a decade, then that's just how the system works.
 

tpeichel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2008
15,510
Pretty sure we've had this same exact conversation about Schilling the previous eight HOF elections. If voters aren't to vote him in, then there is absolutely NOTHING that can be done about it except whining. This isn't "cancel culture", this isn't "the way things are now", this has been happening for almost a decade now. This is America, he can say whatever bigoted bullshit he wants, and he is completely free to do so. But he is also completely free to suffer the consequences of those words, and if one of those consequences is that he hasn't been deemed fit to be voted into the HOF for almost a decade, then that's just how the system works.
I disagree that your life should be destroyed because of words and I agree with Randy that this cancel culture is anti-American. If you think or believe differently, you must be punished and your voice silenced? Really? One writer voted against Schilling because he didn't want to give him a bigger platform; as if it is his job to protect us from ideas. Some of these self-important writers really need to get over themselves.
 

tpeichel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2008
15,510
So what you're saying is that you want to silence that particular HOF voter because of what he said?
Not exactly. If a voter is offended by Schilling not wanting a man dressed up like a woman using the same bathrooms as his daughter, then the voter should step aside and let someone objective handle the hall of fame voting.

Schilling hates Muslim extremists? Who doesn't? Muslim extremists were responsible for 9-11. And guess what? Many enshrined hall of famers felt exactly the same about "Krauts" and "Japs". Are they bigots that should be removed from the HOF? Hank Aaron admitted to using drugs to enhance his performance, should we rescind his enshrinement? Gaylord Perry cheated every time he took the mound. Why is a serial cheater allowed in the hall?

The Hall of Fame is filled with imperfect men. It should include the greatest BASEBALL players, period. So not only Schilling but McGwire, Bonds, Clemens and all the rest.

It's simple. If you are a voter that cannot objectively judge a player's talent on the baseball diamond, step aside.
 

Dilferules

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
982
Auburn, WA
What is an example of bad character that would keep Schilling out of the HOF?
Ha I'm not getting into a point by point debate with you about particular comments he has made. I've read articles from HOF voters that vote for him, and articles from those that won't, and I see the merits of and respect both views.

Also, his life is hardly being destroyed by not being voted into the hall. The man made millions playing baseball. I'm not an advocate of people losing their jobs because they are "cancelled" but then again that's not my choice, that's the decision of the businesses that employ them and when they feel like somebody is causing them more trouble than they are worth they are going to let them go. I guess that's how that much praised free market capitalism thing works.
 

DeliciousBacon

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2011
3,389
Warwick, RI
Really though, if Curt wants to be in the HOF that bad, he can just find himself a nice safe space where he already is in the HOF. Maybe call it HOFMax, or OneAmerica HOF, a place where the voting was rigged and fraudulent, and he was elected by a landslide.

Interesting note on Schiling.
He said that if he's ever elected, he'll go in as a D Back with second choice being Phillies. Won't be a red sox.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Freedom Card Board mobile app
That's interesting, as I do not think he'd even be under consideration were it not for his Red Sox years.
 

banjar

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2015
1,844
Lafayette, Colorado
Technically, it is correct that there is nothing in the HOF voting guidance that says a players "beliefs" should matter. It is right and proper that the HOF voting guidance doesn't include the word "beliefs", for obvious reasons. But the HOF guidance DOES talk specifically about "integrity" and "character":

"Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

So let's not talk about Schilling's beliefs. Let's talk about character and integrity. Curt Schilling has demonstrated over and over and over again that he is extremely deficient in both of these things. If this is the question:

"What is an example of bad character that would keep Schilling out of the HOF?"

the answer is "Are you kidding me?" Take 5 minutes to google this idiot. Curt Schilling's sordid history is not fake news, and there is very little room to play devil's advocate on this. This man is seriously lacking in character and integrity. He literally tweeted support for the insurrectionists that stormed the capitol on the day it happened.

Curt Schilling still has every right in the world to think, say, and do whatever the hell he wants. This is a free country, and I believe in that.

But when it comes to the HOF, voters have rights too. And their charge from the HOF spells this out. They are instructed to consider a candidate's integrity and character when deciding their votes. So if our HOF voters see a man like Schilling, who has repeatedly shown himself to be morally bankrupt and lacking in character, and integrity (and in my view lacking in intelligence and human decency as well), and they decide that this makes a difference in their voting, they are 100% within their rights to do so. Same thing goes when the Giants tell Aubrey Huff "yeah, we're good without you". And no specious arguments about Ty Cobb, or this cancel culture garbage, changes this fact in any way.

However, as I've said, if I had a vote I would put his dumb ass in the HOF. He earned on the field, and that's what matters most to me, more than a person's behavior off the field. But other HOF voters have other ideas, and they are absolutely allowed to hold those ideas. And come on, nobody is "destroying" his life by not voting for him for the HOF.


There is nothing in the guidance for HOF voters that says they should take into accounts the beliefs of the player in determining HOF worthiness. Everyone hated Ty Cobb but he is in.
 
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banjar

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2015
1,844
Lafayette, Colorado
"You cowards sat on your hands, did nothing while liberal trash looted rioted and burned for air Jordan’s and big screens, sit back, stfu, and watch folks start a confrontation for shit that matters like rights, democracy and the end of govt corruption. #itshappening"

- Curt Schilling
January 6 2021
 
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