A Call For Opinion regarding On Card Autographs.

[uniquebaseballcards]

Yes, and every once in a while include one or two players that made an impact that collectors forgot, just to stir the pot. Sal Bando anyone?

This is something that I wonder about as well. At what point should retired players not be within certain releases? Should the Hawk (or player X) have at least one card every year indefinitely? Perhaps this should somehow be tied to player popularity and relevance.

If there were only 1 or 2 releases a year, I and many other player collectors probably would not continue to bother.

I absolutely agree with the bolded, and there are 1,000s of past players who no longer have cards made.

Fan favorites and HOFers should continue to have cards made untill there is no longer a viable market for them.

 

[bmc398]

You guys have to look at this from outside your perspective.

Right now people want something to open so bad that the price is going up on terrible products. If people want to open, then you need to give them something to open.

I understand your point, but I disagree. There are many things people want that would be bad if we let them have all they wanted.

I think this hobby would be better off with less products. But that's just my opinion. One thing's for sure though, sets and individual cards would be worth more if there were less products. Many might leave the hobby, but many might return as well...those that are overwhelmed right now. For instance, how many player-collectors do we know that have given up because there are simply too many cards of their favorite player to chase?

Maybe the Democrats can ramrod this through too! LOL

I think your logic is faulty. Less releases would mean less product released unless the manufacturers up the print runs. They're going to aim to sell the same amount of product no matter how many different products they sell. So yes, more people going after the same cards, but more copies of those cards to go after.

And if they didn't up the print runs to astronomical proportions, they'd bump the price of base Topps up to $200/pack.

Topps is in business to make money. 3 sets a year ain't gonna accomplish that goal.

3 sets a year doesn't make Dr. Price any money either...

Maybe he is independently wealthy and does it for the love...but I don't intentionally go in business to lose money, even if Wheels (and a small portion of a small hobby) likes it and thinks its good

 

[mwheeler27]

Hey Wheels...ask Dr. Price how much money he made last year......my sources say he didn't make much, if at all. In all fairness tho, not making much is more than Topps, Panini and UD put together (making/losing a little vs. losing millions)

Gilmore is right tho...if they had tons of releases a year and released cards on the scale that the majors did it would be impossible to have all on card autos. I know you're the Sportskings champ and all, and it fits what you want perfectly, but its a product that select few in the hobby even know about and a smaller percentage of that few even buy or collect because of a myriad of things it DOESN'T have.

Im all for having every guy you are going to have in your product sign your cards before you include them on the checklist. In the case of Panini I defend them wholeheartedly in this situation. If they include a redemption the card is either already made and signed and missed pack out or a signing is already planned with this player. With SKs products, its a lot easier to get a hold of a retired player or athlete vs. a guy who is currently in season which you don't really take into account in your arguments. I can't really side with UD in this argument tho cuz they put redemptions in products that never get fulfilled and it seems like that was always their plan to start to artificially pump up value...

I don't need to ask Dr. Price how much money he makes because I don't care, and it's none of my business. I'm certain he's not paying out millions in lawsuits though. I haven't even heard that he's let any employees go. If I had to guess, I would say that he's making just enough.

And as far as your 2nd paragraph goes, nothing's impossible if you're willing and financially able to do it. I would much rather hear the excuse that Topps can't afford to have all on-card autos as apposed to hearing they can't get everyone to sign on time. If you have the money, EVERYONE will sign on time. This is something that matters not to me though because I don't/won't collect sticker autos because I believe they simply won't hold value in the future.

So how easy is it to get ahold of retired sports figures all over the world as apposed to MLB players? You say it's easier...how do you know?

 

[cgilmo]

I imagine Dr. Price does quite well. He doesn't have any licensing arms to pay.

 

[cgilmo]

Hey Wheels...ask Dr. Price how much money he made last year......my sources say he didn't make much, if at all. In all fairness tho, not making much is more than Topps, Panini and UD put together (making/losing a little vs. losing millions)

Gilmore is right tho...if they had tons of releases a year and released cards on the scale that the majors did it would be impossible to have all on card autos. I know you're the Sportskings champ and all, and it fits what you want perfectly, but its a product that select few in the hobby even know about and a smaller percentage of that few even buy or collect because of a myriad of things it DOESN'T have.

Im all for having every guy you are going to have in your product sign your cards before you include them on the checklist. In the case of Panini I defend them wholeheartedly in this situation. If they include a redemption the card is either already made and signed and missed pack out or a signing is already planned with this player. With SKs products, its a lot easier to get a hold of a retired player or athlete vs. a guy who is currently in season which you don't really take into account in your arguments. I can't really side with UD in this argument tho cuz they put redemptions in products that never get fulfilled and it seems like that was always their plan to start to artificially pump up value...

I don't need to ask Dr. Price how much money he makes because I don't care, and it's none of my business. I'm certain he's not paying out millions in lawsuits though. I haven't even heard that he's let any employees go. If I had to guess, I would say that he's making just enough.

And as far as your 2nd paragraph goes, nothing's impossible if you're willing and financially able to do it. I would much rather hear the excuse that Topps can't afford to have all on-card autos as apposed to hearing they can't get everyone to sign on time. If you have the money, EVERYONE will sign on time. This is something that matters not to me though because I don't/won't collect sticker autos because I believe they simply won't hold value in the future.

So how easy is it to get ahold of retired sports figures all over the world as apposed to MLB players? You say it's easier...how do you know?

it is easier in the vast majority of cases

 

[bmc398]

I imagine Dr. Price does quite well. He doesn't have any licensing arms to pay.

Ask ur boy BG about it...I did.

 

[mwheeler27]

it is easier in the vast majority of cases

You're probably right, but how do you know? SK doesn't go after only retired athletes. They go after the most popular of those retired athletes.

 

[bmc398]

Hey Wheels...ask Dr. Price how much money he made last year......my sources say he didn't make much, if at all. In all fairness tho, not making much is more than Topps, Panini and UD put together (making/losing a little vs. losing millions)

Gilmore is right tho...if they had tons of releases a year and released cards on the scale that the majors did it would be impossible to have all on card autos. I know you're the Sportskings champ and all, and it fits what you want perfectly, but its a product that select few in the hobby even know about and a smaller percentage of that few even buy or collect because of a myriad of things it DOESN'T have.

Im all for having every guy you are going to have in your product sign your cards before you include them on the checklist. In the case of Panini I defend them wholeheartedly in this situation. If they include a redemption the card is either already made and signed and missed pack out or a signing is already planned with this player. With SKs products, its a lot easier to get a hold of a retired player or athlete vs. a guy who is currently in season which you don't really take into account in your arguments. I can't really side with UD in this argument tho cuz they put redemptions in products that never get fulfilled and it seems like that was always their plan to start to artificially pump up value...

I don't need to ask Dr. Price how much money he makes because I don't care, and it's none of my business. I'm certain he's not paying out millions in lawsuits though. I haven't even heard that he's let any employees go. If I had to guess, I would say that he's making just enough.

And as far as your 2nd paragraph goes, nothing's impossible if you're willing and financially able to do it. I would much rather hear the excuse that Topps can't afford to have all on-card autos as apposed to hearing they can't get everyone to sign on time. If you have the money, EVERYONE will sign on time. This is something that matters not to me though because I don't/won't collect sticker autos because I believe they simply won't hold value in the future.

So how easy is it to get ahold of retired sports figures all over the world as apposed to MLB players? You say it's easier...how do you know?

it is easier in the vast majority of cases

Many athletes don't sign, not because the are lazy, but because of time commitments during their sports seasons. Look at SKs autographs. THose guys don't really strike me as the type to have a lot going on right now....especially time commitments that require them to be in a different city multiple nights a week. When you don't have stockholders to answer to, you can put out a few products a year and spend months getting them signed. The majors are dealing with tons of releases, most coming out during the season.

Your SK to Topps or UD arguement is almost apples to oranges. Now if you wanted to compare legends/retired products....we can talk.

 

[mwheeler27]

Reggie Bush was pretty popular when Series A was released. At that time, nearly everyone was chasing him to sign, and he's included in Sportkings with on-card autos and on-card autographed memorabilia cards.

Series B has on-card autos and autographed memorabilia cards of Jason Bay and Justin Morneau.

Now, I understand these are only a very few names. Any card company could get a few current players to sign on-card autos without having redemptions. I listed these young stars to illustrate that SK is not only about retired players.

One point that has been made is that few people even know about Sportkings. I agree. I'm simply trying to get more people to know about it. It's a double edged sword though because if everyone caught on and loved SK, there'd be no way I could collect it to the extent that I collect it now.

 

[bmc398]

Reggie Bush was pretty popular when Series A was released. At that time, nearly everyone was chasing him to sign, and he's included in Sportkings with on-card autos and on-card autographed memorabilia cards.

Series B has on-card autos and autographed memorabilia cards of Jason Bay and Justin Morneau.

Now, I understand these are only a very few names. Any card company could get a few current players to sign on-card autos without having redemptions. I listed these young stars to illustrate that SK is not only about retired players.

One point that has been made is that few people even know about Sportkings. I agree. I'm simply trying to get more people to know about it. It's a double edged sword though because if everyone caught on and loved SK, there'd be no way I could collect it to the extent that I collect it now.

Im all for dumping on UD, but if you look at Topps and Panini products over the past few years they have done pretty good at getting guys who are in season in new products. If they weren't in the product they were relatively quick at getting you a replacement or the acutual auto. Yeah, they use stickers but im of the school that an auto is an auto. Its about the card for me...not the back story about how the card was made or when it was signed. Some stickers do take away from the look of the card, but I do prospects mostly....I don't care if Joe Prospects auto is on card or not. In the case of Bowman Sterling, I think the stickers help the card fit in with the theme...as cheesy as that sounds. If its a product where traditionally the auto is on card (i.e. Bowman Chrome) then I expect that to stay true as well.

(rant not directed at you Wheels) I just think that with all the box breaks, checklists and up to the minute info out there about the hobby, i'm tired of all of the people being pissed off about on card/not on card. If there are no on card autos in the product and you are going to bust it and not do your research and look into what you are busting you dont deserve to bitch. If you don't like stickers then get picky and stop busting boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes and cases of triple threads and tribute and then crying about how high end shouldn't be on sticker. Vote with your wallet and maybe things will change.

I appreciate you and your collection Wheels. You are a guy who doesn't take crap (from posters, and card companies) knows what he likes and goes to bat for them. I have an issue tho with you comparing a typical topps/bowman release with an ITG/Price release tho as far as it being almost 2 different markets. As much as Sportskings and ITG and all of those products accomplish, there's a list almost as long that they fall short on. Where they are smart is their price point...legends/retired collectors and chasers have the money to spend where as guys like me who are young and interested in young players can't drop $350 on a box all the time.

BTW...how did your Famous Fabrics breaks go? ANy cuts?

 

[mwheeler27]

Im all for dumping on UD, but if you look at Topps and Panini products over the past few years they have done pretty good at getting guys who are in season in new products. If they weren't in the product they were relatively quick at getting you a replacement or the acutual auto. Yeah, they use stickers but im of the school that an auto is an auto. Its about the card for me...not the back story about how the card was made or when it was signed. Some stickers do take away from the look of the card, but I do prospects mostly....I don't care if Joe Prospects auto is on card or not. In the case of Bowman Sterling, I think the stickers help the card fit in with the theme...as cheesy as that sounds. If its a product where traditionally the auto is on card (i.e. Bowman Chrome) then I expect that to stay true as well.

(rant not directed at you Wheels) I just think that with all the box breaks, checklists and up to the minute info out there about the hobby, i'm tired of all of the people being pissed off about on card/not on card. If there are no on card autos in the product and you are going to bust it and not do your research and look into what you are busting you dont deserve to bitch. If you don't like stickers then get picky and stop busting boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes and cases of triple threads and tribute and then crying about how high end shouldn't be on sticker. Vote with your wallet and maybe things will change.

I appreciate you and your collection Wheels. You are a guy who doesn't take crap (from posters, and card companies) knows what he likes and goes to bat for them. I have an issue tho with you comparing a typical topps/bowman release with an ITG/Price release tho as far as it being almost 2 different markets. As much as Sportskings and ITG and all of those products accomplish, there's a list almost as long that they fall short on. Where they are smart is their price point...legends/retired collectors and chasers have the money to spend where as guys like me who are young and interested in young players can't drop $350 on a box all the time.

BTW...how did your Famous Fabrics breaks go? ANy cuts?

I always appreciate your posts. Intelligent discussions are wonderful.

You and I are different in the fact that you don't mind sticker autos, and I can't stand them. I don't buy products anymore that have sticker autos in them. I don't buy singles anymore with sticker autos on them. I try to only comment about sticker autos when others ask our opinions of them. Again, I agree that as long as people are going to like sticker autos, (or at least not mind them enough to continue buying them), card companies might as well continue to produce them because this will keep their costs down. I just won't be spending any of my money on these products. I also agree that people who continue to buy products with sticker autos in them should not complain because they should know by the sell sheets that sticker autos are in there. I'd love to buy some of the more valuable RC cards, but won't as long as the auto is on a sticker. I know...my loss........for now. (Probably my loss forever).

I purchased Famous Fabrics as an investment, and so far it's turning out quite well. Sealed box prices keep climbing. I'm not sure if they will continue to climb, hold where they're at, or start to fall, but I'm probably going to hang onto my cases until their next release.

Did you see how much that Honus Wagner cut sold for? WOW!!!

 

[bmc398]

Im all for dumping on UD, but if you look at Topps and Panini products over the past few years they have done pretty good at getting guys who are in season in new products. If they weren't in the product they were relatively quick at getting you a replacement or the acutual auto. Yeah, they use stickers but im of the school that an auto is an auto. Its about the card for me...not the back story about how the card was made or when it was signed. Some stickers do take away from the look of the card, but I do prospects mostly....I don't care if Joe Prospects auto is on card or not. In the case of Bowman Sterling, I think the stickers help the card fit in with the theme...as cheesy as that sounds. If its a product where traditionally the auto is on card (i.e. Bowman Chrome) then I expect that to stay true as well.

(rant not directed at you Wheels) I just think that with all the box breaks, checklists and up to the minute info out there about the hobby, i'm tired of all of the people being pissed off about on card/not on card. If there are no on card autos in the product and you are going to bust it and not do your research and look into what you are busting you dont deserve to bitch. If you don't like stickers then get picky and stop busting boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes and cases of triple threads and tribute and then crying about how high end shouldn't be on sticker. Vote with your wallet and maybe things will change.

I appreciate you and your collection Wheels. You are a guy who doesn't take crap (from posters, and card companies) knows what he likes and goes to bat for them. I have an issue tho with you comparing a typical topps/bowman release with an ITG/Price release tho as far as it being almost 2 different markets. As much as Sportskings and ITG and all of those products accomplish, there's a list almost as long that they fall short on. Where they are smart is their price point...legends/retired collectors and chasers have the money to spend where as guys like me who are young and interested in young players can't drop $350 on a box all the time.

BTW...how did your Famous Fabrics breaks go? ANy cuts?

I always appreciate your posts. Intelligent discussions are wonderful.

You and I are different in the fact that you don't mind sticker autos, and I can't stand them. I don't buy products anymore that have sticker autos in them. I don't buy singles anymore with sticker autos on them. I try to only comment about sticker autos when others ask our opinions of them. Again, I agree that as long as people are going to like sticker autos, (or at least not mind them enough to continue buying them), card companies might as well continue to produce them because this will keep their costs down. I just won't be spending any of my money on these products. I also agree that people who continue to buy products with sticker autos in them should not complain because they should know by the sell sheets that sticker autos are in there. I'd love to buy some of the more valuable RC cards, but won't as long as the auto is on a sticker. I know...my loss........for now. (Probably my loss forever).

I purchased Famous Fabrics as an investment, and so far it's turning out quite well. Sealed box prices keep climbing. I'm not sure if they will continue to climb, hold where they're at, or start to fall, but I'm probably going to hang onto my cases until their next release.

Did you see how much that Honus Wagner cut sold for? WOW!!!

It seemed to me that the cuts were fewer than what was said in the product info....maybe some UD bait and switch? JK....but all in all that product has been a huge success. That Wagner cut was insane. FF looks to ba a Solid investment on your part, considering boxes are selling at least 50% more than what you bought them for. I'm a ripper, and it would take everything in me not to rip. My vote....sell a case now, pocket the profits and then rip the other! Im sure selling one master case will put you close to breaking even and the singles will be fun to resale and good additions to the collection as well.

As far as the stickers go....99% aren't "future investment grade" guys anyways. I agree with on card autos as far as buying and selling on the secondary market tho. If its my guy...id prefer an on card....but im going to collect all his stuff, especially his autos and it really doesn't matter what its on. I guess i'm not just not that picky in the end. Im sure the same people who pulled a 2009 football contenders auto of some big guy and it was bubbled to hell (even tho they busted contenders because of the on card stuff) would then be bitching to get a sticker auto of that guy so you really can't please anybody in the end. One of the reasons I don't mind stickers is that they are specially made to take the auto well. I have yet to have a topps sticker auto fade. The same can't be said for many older UD autos, be they on sticker or on card.

If I am buying a hall of famer auto....or a guy who projects to be I'll go for his better stuff first...which due to market perception now is on card. Plus, the guys who you collect really have no business signing a sticker do they? LOL