ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RR (please read)

[cgilmo]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Threats against users can't be good for business or FCB for that matter.

They are actually pretty good for FCB. Not saying I want anyone sued, but the talk of it sure gets people posting.

 

[ChasHawk]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Thanks for the grandstanding and threats BG...we missed you.

I'm going to ask one question as a person who owns fairly limited leaf/razor products.

Chas, what would your reaction be if there were unsubstantiated claims being made against your company that had an opportunity to cause damage?

If you were a business owner and people were taking shots at you that could make people shy away from you, would you be ok with that.

I'm not talking about those who dont like the product but those who are willing to make claims with no proof? I'm pretty sure many of us would go to great pains to protect our reputations and our financial interests...

If I believed in the legitimacy of my products and wasn't incredibly insecure, I wouldn't have a care
in the world about what some people on a message board say about me or my products.

Do we see topps reps coming here threatening litigation when people completely bash a topps card or product?

Haven't we as a board questioned cuts/patches/etc from topps and Upper Deck?

Have topps sales been affected?

I knew from the second that RR break was posted, BG would be on here in a matter of days.

 

[Slette]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Make a Heisman set.

#notabovederailingaconversation

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Thanks for the grandstanding and threats BG...we missed you.

I'm going to ask one question as a person who owns fairly limited leaf/razor products.

Chas, what would your reaction be if there were unsubstantiated claims being made against your company that had an opportunity to cause damage?

If you were a business owner and people were taking shots at you that could make people shy away from you, would you be ok with that.

I'm not talking about those who dont like the product but those who are willing to make claims with no proof? I'm pretty sure many of us would go to great pains to protect our reputations and our financial interests...

It happens on a daily basis here with Topps, doesn't it?

I think, Tim, the issue is not that the owner of a company -- be it Price, Gray, whoever the hell owns Panini, or a CS rep from Topps comes here and posts (or doesn't) -- but the content, and tone, of said post.

I think that's always been one of Razor/Leaf's failings.

 

[Ty Hope]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Off topic but I STRONGLY believe you may want to reconsider adding cards like this to products in the future. Only my opinion, but at the shop today all the regulars (one guy ordered two cases) laughed their asses off when they heard about these cards. And not in a good way... I know I'm not the only one who finds them hideous to look at.

Again, merely my opinion. I do LOVE the PSA DNA on-card buyback autos though.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Threats against users can't be good for business or FCB for that matter.

They are actually pretty good for FCB. Not saying I want anyone sued, but the talk of it sure gets people posting.

....note to self.... Chris likes legal talk.

 

[phillyfan0417]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Thanks for the grandstanding and threats BG...we missed you.

I'm going to ask one question as a person who owns fairly limited leaf/razor products.

Chas, what would your reaction be if there were unsubstantiated claims being made against your company that had an opportunity to cause damage?

If you were a business owner and people were taking shots at you that could make people shy away from you, would you be ok with that.

I'm not talking about those who dont like the product but those who are willing to make claims with no proof? I'm pretty sure many of us would go to great pains to protect our reputations and our financial interests...

If I believed in the legitimacy of my products and wasn't incredibly insecure, I wouldn't have a care
in the world about what some people on a message board say about me or my products.

Do we see topps reps coming here threatening litigation when people completely bash a topps card or product?

Haven't we as a board questioned cuts/patches/etc from topps and Upper Deck?

Have topps sales been affected?

I knew from the second that RR break was posted, BG would be on here in a matter of days.

So if you owned a company and people were making claims that could damage or ruin your reputation/company, you'd be ok with it as long as you know its not true? How does that knowledge help alleviate the concerns of potential customers?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Thanks for the grandstanding and threats BG...we missed you.

I'm going to ask one question as a person who owns fairly limited leaf/razor products.

Chas, what would your reaction be if there were unsubstantiated claims being made against your company that had an opportunity to cause damage?

If you were a business owner and people were taking shots at you that could make people shy away from you, would you be ok with that.

I'm not talking about those who dont like the product but those who are willing to make claims with no proof? I'm pretty sure many of us would go to great pains to protect our reputations and our financial interests...

If I believed in the legitimacy of my products and wasn't incredibly insecure, I wouldn't have a care
in the world about what some people on a message board say about me or my products.

Do we see topps reps coming here threatening litigation when people completely bash a topps card or product?

Haven't we as a board questioned cuts/patches/etc from topps and Upper Deck?

Have topps sales been affected?

I knew from the second that RR break was posted, BG would be on here in a matter of days.

So if you owned a company and people were making claims that could damage or ruin your reputation/company, you'd be ok with it as long as you know its not true? How does that knowledge help alleviate the concerns of potential customers?

Tone and content, Tim... Tone and content.

 

[bballcardkid]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

So let's say the Durant is fake, and 5% of all PSA/DNA blue flips are fake and some end up being incorporated into products like this. If the product breakdown clearly showed the inclusion of these types of cards, and the buyer reasonably understands the inherent uncertainty into authenticating IP type autos, I don't see how they can be upset nor can I see how they would want to hold the product manufacturer responsible. If a card company produces their own cards, claims they are certified autos of X player when they really aren't, yeah, I can see the beaf. In a situation like this, I don't think anyone is personally responsible except for the buyer. You can't hold the manufactuer resonsible because seriously, what would you do? Create your own authenticating service/team to verify already authenticated items just to "cover your ass," or two, just take another credible third parties opinion and run with it? I'd say the second option wins every time. You can't hold the third party authenticator responsible, because they are offering their opinion.

Every buyer of these types of products should be fully aware that a situation like this could occur, and it should way heavily into their decision before buying.

 

[Leaf]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Lets try a do over, based on Loblaw's request for a better tone:

Guys,
These stickers are absolutely authentic. If you would like to discuss, feel free to call/PM.
I would greatly appreciate if members would refrain from making unfair statements without all the facts.
Thanks for sharing the opinions.
BG

p.s.- I am going back into the shadows. I will respond by PM where warranted.

 

[goldenegg1]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

The thing that bothers me is there is a sticker auto on a card that was never autographed in the first place. I can see getting a card signed on card for a buyback program, but to put a sticker on it is just wrong on so many levels.

 

[phillyfan0417]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Thanks for the grandstanding and threats BG...we missed you.

I'm going to ask one question as a person who owns fairly limited leaf/razor products.

Chas, what would your reaction be if there were unsubstantiated claims being made against your company that had an opportunity to cause damage?

If you were a business owner and people were taking shots at you that could make people shy away from you, would you be ok with that.

I'm not talking about those who dont like the product but those who are willing to make claims with no proof? I'm pretty sure many of us would go to great pains to protect our reputations and our financial interests...

If I believed in the legitimacy of my products and wasn't incredibly insecure, I wouldn't have a care
in the world about what some people on a message board say about me or my products.

Do we see topps reps coming here threatening litigation when people completely bash a topps card or product?

Haven't we as a board questioned cuts/patches/etc from topps and Upper Deck?

Have topps sales been affected?

I knew from the second that RR break was posted, BG would be on here in a matter of days.

So if you owned a company and people were making claims that could damage or ruin your reputation/company, you'd be ok with it as long as you know its not true? How does that knowledge help alleviate the concerns of potential customers?

Tone and content, Tim... Tone and content.

Sorry Jeff, you can say that all you want but if there was a site where people go to discuss attorneys and someone was there making claims about you, i'm fairly certain you wouldn't walk away saying "i know it isnt true and I'm sure potential clients will know that too"

People can bash the product all they want based on dislike of content but making accusations without any proof is reckless.

 

[VandyDan]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

The Leaf posting on this thread reminds me of Bahgdad Bob. 'there are no americans in Bahgdad'. 'there are no items of dubious authenticity in rrr'.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but the tenor of the 'official statement' is just eye-opening.

 

[RITM]

ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Threats against users can't be good for business or FCB for that matter.

They are actually pretty good for FCB. Not saying I want anyone sued, but the talk of it sure gets people posting.

Awesome.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

[quote="ChasHawk":145z18as]Thanks for the grandstanding and threats BG...we missed you.

I'm going to ask one question as a person who owns fairly limited leaf/razor products.

Chas, what would your reaction be if there were unsubstantiated claims being made against your company that had an opportunity to cause damage?

If you were a business owner and people were taking shots at you that could make people shy away from you, would you be ok with that.

I'm not talking about those who dont like the product but those who are willing to make claims with no proof? I'm pretty sure many of us would go to great pains to protect our reputations and our financial interests...

If I believed in the legitimacy of my products and wasn't incredibly insecure, I wouldn't have a care
in the world about what some people on a message board say about me or my products.

Do we see topps reps coming here threatening litigation when people completely bash a topps card or product?

Haven't we as a board questioned cuts/patches/etc from topps and Upper Deck?

Have topps sales been affected?

I knew from the second that RR break was posted, BG would be on here in a matter of days.

So if you owned a company and people were making claims that could damage or ruin your reputation/company, you'd be ok with it as long as you know its not true? How does that knowledge help alleviate the concerns of potential customers?

Tone and content, Tim... Tone and content.

Sorry Jeff, you can say that all you want but if there was a site where people go to discuss attorneys and someone was there making claims about you, i'm fairly certain you would walk away saying "i know it isnt true and I'm sure potential clients will know that too"

People can bash the product all they want based on dislike of content but making accusations without any proof is reckless.[/quote:145z18as]

I'm not saying I wouldn't say anything. There are different ways of handling it -- professionally or unprofessionally. This is the latter. Manufacturers have to be act and be held to a higher standard than the rest of us jabronis on a message board.

 

[cgilmo]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

Threats against users can't be good for business or FCB for that matter.

They are actually pretty good for FCB. Not saying I want anyone sued, but the talk of it sure gets people posting.

Awesome.

After a weekend of spotty service, bring on the fun.

Man, maybe I really am a carnie.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

The Leaf posting on this thread reminds me of Bahgdad Bob. 'there are no americans in Bahgdad'. 'there are no items of dubious authenticity in rrr'.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but the tenor of the 'official statement' is just eye-opening.

 

[matfanofold]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

I just think this whole thing is crazy....

The product in concept is to allow collectors or investors to have a chance at obtaining something out of their normal budget/reach with regards to historic, iconic, and otherwise valuable cards of prior production. However, hand signed RC cards in a PSA/DNA flip are also available, and even though thesr are not 'original' per see, they are widely accepted and collected in the hobby. Here is the catch though, now we are to swallow that modern cards of a 'low value' nature with some home made baind-aids on them are equatable to hand signed DNA or pack pulled (original) sticker auto cards. Which clearly they are not.

How long before a 1988 topps Matt Williams RC with a Baind-Aid auto on it surfaces?

Point being, a line was clearly crossed here, and although the wording on the product may allow for it, it's clear that it is not a welcome or well recieved addition to anyone who was/is buying this product. The only question left is exactly what is BG going to do to make this right to all the collectors who feel they have been duped here? I mean, If I told you I had 10 bird/Johnson RC cards, all in quality condition, and all auto'd in a DNA slab, would you not be upset if they arrived with stickers on them?

EDIT: I'm kind of shocked BG did not try and replace this card, and the only conclusion I can make is that there is MANY of these in the product, so to recognize it as a blunber will be very damaging to the product as a whole.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

They are actually pretty good for FCB. Not saying I want anyone sued, but the talk of it sure gets people posting.

"When you [FCB] scamps get together, you're worse than a sewing circle"

-Mia Wallace

 

[George_Calfas]

Re: ADDRESSING QUESTIONS ON RRR (please read)

So let's say the Durant is fake, and 5% of all PSA/DNA blue flips are fake and some end up being incorporated into products like this. If the product breakdown clearly showed the inclusion of these types of cards, and the buyer reasonably understands the inherent uncertainty into authenticating IP type autos, I don't see how they can be upset nor can I see how they would want to hold the product manufacturer responsible. If a card company produces their own cards, claims they are certified autos of X player when they really aren't, yeah, I can see the beaf. In a situation like this, I don't think anyone is personally responsible except for the buyer. You can't hold the manufactuer resonsible because seriously, what would you do? Create your own authenticating service/team to verify already authenticated items just to "cover your ass," or two, just take another credible third parties opinion and run with it? I'd say the second option wins every time. You can't hold the third party authenticator responsible, because they are offering their opinion.

Every buyer of these types of products should be fully aware that a situation like this could occur, and it should way heavily into their decision before buying.

In an ideal world where the checklist is released in advance of the product your statement is fair. However, no one saw the checklist until after allocations were fulfilled and Pre-buyers were made.