AL ROY: Mirror mirror on the wall......

[EricInCT]

Tale of the tape:

Porcello
8-4
3.55 ERA
78.2 innings
80 hits
31 ER
11 HR
27 Walks
44 Ks

Bergesen
5-2
3.76 ERA
83.2 innings
83 Hits
35 ER
9 HR
19 walks
40 Ks


Bergesen's numbers would dwarf Porcello's if it wasn't for the Os bullpen:

Philly game: 2 inherited runs scored, goes from a win to a no-decision.
Was game: left leading 5-4, received a no-decision.
Yank game: 2 inherited runs scored
Rays game: bullpen allows 4 in the 9th
Minn game: left leading 4-3, received a no-decision.


Porcello's numbers in the same situation:


Yank game: 2 inherited runs scored
Cubs game: left leading 3-2, no decision.



Factor in the 4 no-decisions and the 2 extra inherited runs and Bergesen's season is mirroring Porcello thus far.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

 

[pujolsjunkie]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Maybe later, right now it's Rasmus.

 

[EricInCT]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Hanson would have to win his first 8 decisions to distance himself away from Cutch....he is the real deal and I am kicking myself for not diversfying my prospects and buying so deeply into Travis Snider for my key bat, ouch.

Only thing with Porcello, and you have seen it in his last few starts, he will only be going 5 innings for much of the remainder of the year due to how many innings he pitched last year. In contrast Bergesen has already pitched into the 7th 8th and even the 9th recently.

 

[ballerskrip]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Maybe later, right now it's Rasmus.

I'm not buying what you are selling about Rasmus

Rasmus is far from impressive at this point, .265, 7 HR's, 28 RBI, 1 SB, and 43 K's in 215 AB's......OPS -.758

Cutch - .323, 1 HR, 18 RBI, 4 Sb's, 5 3B's, 16 K's in 93 AB's.....OPS- .882

 

[All The Hype]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Hanson would have to win his first 8 decisions to distance himself away from Cutch....he is the real deal and I am kicking myself for not diversfying my prospects and buying so deeply into Travis Snider for my key bat, ouch.

Only thing with Porcello, and you have seen it in his last few starts, he will only be going 5 innings for much of the remainder of the year due to how many innings he pitched last year. In contrast Bergesen has already pitched into the 7th 8th and even the 9th recently.

It's not the number of innings, it's the number of pitches that are being tracked. This kid has a future, and Leyland is making sure he doesn't ruin it by pushing him too fast too soon.

In response to the original post of this thread, it is very easy to go back and say "if this and this had(n't) happened, then this guy's numbers would look like this....."

The bottom line is that a pitcher has ultimate control of his own fate. If he doesn't put two runners on base before he is taken out of the game, then he can't have his ERA ruined when the bullpen comes in and lets them score.

It's very frustrating to watch Porcello being taken out of the game only to have Zach Miner come into the game and allow the inherited runners to score and blow the lead (and then get the win), especially considering the fact that Porcello is one of the best groundball-inducers in the league. But the bottom line is that Porcello put those guys on base, just like Bergesen.

 

[ballerskrip]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Hanson would have to win his first 8 decisions to distance himself away from Cutch....he is the real deal and I am kicking myself for not diversfying my prospects and buying so deeply into Travis Snider for my key bat, ouch.

Only thing with Porcello, and you have seen it in his last few starts, he will only be going 5 innings for much of the remainder of the year due to how many innings he pitched last year. In contrast Bergesen has already pitched into the 7th 8th and even the 9th recently.

It's not the number of innings, it's the number of pitches that are being tracked. This kid has a future, and Leyland is making sure he doesn't ruin it by pushing him too fast too soon.

In response to the original post of this thread, it is very easy to go back and say "if this and this had(n't) happened, then this guy's numbers would look like this....."

The bottom line is that a pitcher has ultimate control of his own fate. If he doesn't put two runners on base before he is taken out of the game, then he can't have his ERA ruined when the bullpen comes in and lets them score.

It's very frustrating to watch Porcello being taken out of the game only to have Zach Miner come into the game and allow the inherited runners to score and blow the lead (and then get the win), especially considering the fact that Porcello is one of the best groundball-inducers in the league. But the bottom line is that Porcello put those guys on base, just like Bergesen.

I have read and heard multiple places that Scott Boras is the one behind Porcello's limitation of innings and pitches.....Not Leyland

 

[EricInCT]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Maybe later, right now it's Rasmus.

I'm not buying what you are selling about Rasmus

Rasmus is far from impressive at this point, .265, 7 HR's, 28 RBI, 1 SB, and 43 K's in 215 AB's......OPS -.758

Cutch - .323, 1 HR, 18 RBI, 4 Sb's, 5 3B's, 16 K's in 93 AB's.....OPS- .882

Yup, what he said.

 

[All The Hype]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Maybe later, right now it's Rasmus.

I'm not buying what you are selling about Rasmus

Rasmus is far from impressive at this point, .265, 7 HR's, 28 RBI, 1 SB, and 43 K's in 215 AB's......OPS -.758

Cutch - .323, 1 HR, 18 RBI, 4 Sb's, 5 3B's, 16 K's in 93 AB's.....OPS- .882

Yup, what he said.

I agree about Cutch > Rasmus too.

 

[kdailey4315]

What about Pablo Sandoval? Did he play too many games last year to be considered this year? he has better numbers than Cuth and plays on a better team.

 

[RANGERS25]

no love for ELVIS ANDRUS?

 

[EricInCT]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Hanson would have to win his first 8 decisions to distance himself away from Cutch....he is the real deal and I am kicking myself for not diversfying my prospects and buying so deeply into Travis Snider for my key bat, ouch.

Only thing with Porcello, and you have seen it in his last few starts, he will only be going 5 innings for much of the remainder of the year due to how many innings he pitched last year. In contrast Bergesen has already pitched into the 7th 8th and even the 9th recently.

It's not the number of innings, it's the number of pitches that are being tracked. This kid has a future, and Leyland is making sure he doesn't ruin it by pushing him too fast too soon.

In response to the original post of this thread, it is very easy to go back and say "if this and this had(n't) happened, then this guy's numbers would look like this....."

The bottom line is that a pitcher has ultimate control of his own fate. If he doesn't put two runners on base before he is taken out of the game, then he can't have his ERA ruined when the bullpen comes in and lets them score.

It's very frustrating to watch Porcello being taken out of the game only to have Zach Miner come into the game and allow the inherited runners to score and blow the lead (and then get the win), especially considering the fact that Porcello is one of the best groundball-inducers in the league. But the bottom line is that Porcello put those guys on base, just like Bergesen.

I agree that the pitcher controls their own destiny.....what you didn't address is the 4 no-decisions that Bergesen has versus the 1 that Porcello has in your argument.

It is NOT the pitch count so much as the innings, he will be throwing 87 pitches in 5 innings or 103 in 5 innings. He won't be making that 88th pitch in the 6th in the next month, he only pitched what 125 innings in 2008? He can't increase his innings by 40% that is unheard of......25% max.

 

[kdailey4315]

no love for ELVIS ANDRUS?

No

 

[EricInCT]

What about Pablo Sandoval? Did he play too many games last year to be considered this year? he has better numbers than Cuth and plays on a better team.

Not eligibile or else he would win the NL ROY hands down....9 HRs after tonight and a .340 BA.....kid is amazing actually.

 

[kdailey4315]

What about Pablo Sandoval? Did he play too many games last year to be considered this year? he has better numbers than Cuth and plays on a better team.

Not eligibile or else he would win the NL ROY hands down....9 HRs after tonight and a .340 BA.....kid is amazing actually.

What is the cut off? he was a September call up last year.

 

[EricInCT]

What about Pablo Sandoval? Did he play too many games last year to be considered this year? he has better numbers than Cuth and plays on a better team.

Not eligibile or else he would win the NL ROY hands down....9 HRs after tonight and a .340 BA.....kid is amazing actually.

What is the cut off? he was a September call up last year.

Went over the number of at bats to become eligible by 20 or less.

 

[All The Hype]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Hanson would have to win his first 8 decisions to distance himself away from Cutch....he is the real deal and I am kicking myself for not diversfying my prospects and buying so deeply into Travis Snider for my key bat, ouch.

Only thing with Porcello, and you have seen it in his last few starts, he will only be going 5 innings for much of the remainder of the year due to how many innings he pitched last year. In contrast Bergesen has already pitched into the 7th 8th and even the 9th recently.

It's not the number of innings, it's the number of pitches that are being tracked. This kid has a future, and Leyland is making sure he doesn't ruin it by pushing him too fast too soon.

In response to the original post of this thread, it is very easy to go back and say "if this and this had(n't) happened, then this guy's numbers would look like this....."

The bottom line is that a pitcher has ultimate control of his own fate. If he doesn't put two runners on base before he is taken out of the game, then he can't have his ERA ruined when the bullpen comes in and lets them score.

It's very frustrating to watch Porcello being taken out of the game only to have Zach Miner come into the game and allow the inherited runners to score and blow the lead (and then get the win), especially considering the fact that Porcello is one of the best groundball-inducers in the league. But the bottom line is that Porcello put those guys on base, just like Bergesen.

I agree that the pitcher controls their own destiny.....what you didn't address is the 4 no-decisions that Bergesen has versus the 1 that Porcello has in your argument.

It is NOT the pitch count so much as the innings, he will be throwing 87 pitches in 5 innings or 103 in 5 innings. He won't be making that 88th pitch in the 6th in the next month, he only pitched what 125 innings in 2008? He can't increase his innings by 40% that is unheard of......25% max.

The number of innings literally does not matter at all.

If Porcello pitchers five 3-pitch innings, you don't think he will get to pitch the 6th? What matters is the number of pitches. If Porcello throws five 10-pitch innings, you really think Leyland is going to go to the bullpen when Porcello has only thrown 50 pitches? Of course not, he will go out there until he either a)becomes ineffective or b)gets up near or over his 90th-100th pitch of the game. The lower he keeps his pitch count during each start, the longer he will get to stay in the game.

So far, Leyland has held Porcello under 100 pitches per outing (he has reached 99 and 97 recently), and that is what will help save his arm. Is there a chance that he runs out of gas down the stretch? Possibly, as this is something most rookie pitchers run into. But with the way that the Tigers are carefully handling Porcello, they are giving him the best possible chance to stay strong all season long.

 

[MacK]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

Maybe later, right now it's Rasmus.

I'm not buying what you are selling about Rasmus

Rasmus is far from impressive at this point, .265, 7 HR's, 28 RBI, 1 SB, and 43 K's in 215 AB's......OPS -.758

Cutch - .323, 1 HR, 18 RBI, 4 Sb's, 5 3B's, 16 K's in 93 AB's.....OPS- .882

No, he's impressive all right.

He was hitting .230 up until just a few weeks ago. He's really turned it on since then, and he's hitting around .360 in June, even higher if he wasn't for the last 4-5 games.

As the summer continues, so will his bat.

Either way, they're both great players with great futures.

 

[gt2590]

The second half of the season is typically a humbling experience for rookie pitchers.

Neither pitcher is jumping ahead and anyone can win AL ROY at this point.

NL ROY right now I think is in the hands of McCutchen.

+1.

 

[darocker80]

What about Pablo Sandoval? Did he play too many games last year to be considered this year? he has better numbers than Cuth and plays on a better team.

Not eligibile or else he would win the NL ROY hands down....9 HRs after tonight and a .340 BA.....kid is amazing actually.