Alternative investments (my most recent attempt)

[Topnotchsy]

I've spoken to a number of people on these boards and posted a couple of times about looking for "alternative investments," investments in cards that are not RC's. I've had some discussion with a couple of people and wanted to share my latest attempt.

When the 2008 Ultimate Collection Bat Barrel Autographs came out, I felt that the prices were significantly lower than they "should" be, based on how unusual the concept was (there have been almost no bat cards that size in all the years of game-used, and even fewer were signed.) I went and snagged the Jeter for $101 delivered, and went on to pick up a few more.

Yesterday I listed the Jeter with a BIN of $160 which was hit, which made a pretty sweet 3 week "flip" especially considering I paid market value at the time of the purchase.

Basically I think it's clear that there are ways to make money in all areas of the card market if one pays close enough attention. For the Ultimate set I've been picking up some of the rarer ones (and especially the retired players) and still think those could still see some serious increases (how crazy is a Musial Bat Barrel Auto /10!!) though some of the cards are selling fairly well.

It's all about keeping your eyes open, and allowing yourself to think differently than the masses. IMO there was no "magic," it was simply looking at the factors:

1. The concept of the card is highly unusual (this means that it should end up standing out amongst the rest.)
2. The card design (IMO anyway) is awesome (ugly cards just don't do too well.)
3. The set was released at the same time as Prime Cuts and Sterling (this told me that the set could very well be under-priced since many may not have noticed the set.)
4. Ultimate Collection was released with little "fanfare" and the fact that these were Game-Used seemed to have been overlooked. (I asked around at the beginning and many people were unaware that the set was game-used. I figured that because there were so many "letterman" sets recently, people are used to cards that have "material" in them not being game-used.)

Combining these ideas there was plenty of reason to believe the set would be popular, and also reason to believe that the set was being overlooked (if only one of these was true, there would be no reason for real increases.)

Anyone else invest in non-RC sets? Any thoughts?

And for those who care, full disclosure I have the Sandberg /15, Schmidt /15 and Musial /10 so my opinion may be slightly biased on this set, but I do put my money where my mouth is.

 

[chuckbartowski]

Vintage patches. This stuff just seems to go up and up. It's gotta be guys that you don't generally see.

 

[Dpanthers14]

I def. feel that I can make money with out doing prospects! When I go to show I can turn cheap gu/autos and get double when i sell them in bulk. Like the op said its about keeping your eyes open. Its like when i bought the McCann logo patch for 20 and turned it for 150. I have did this many times at shows not as much on here but its all about keeping your options and your eyes open.

 

[Topnotchsy]

Vintage patches. This stuff just seems to go up and up. It's gotta be guys that you don't generally see.

I wonder though if it's as simple as "vintage patches." I mean, new products keep coming out that trump the old ones, and while sooner or later in theory they have to run out of material, why would anyone pay more for them in a few years than they would now. My guess is that there is more material out there than most people assume, and they'll be making patches for a while. I do think there will be sets that distinguish themselves, and I could be totally wrong about the whole thing (and I am sure that in the past there were some patches that went up significantly) but I'm not sure I see anything that makes me think that they will really go up a lot going forward. This is just my uneducated opinion (I am far from an expert in the patch card market.)

Dpanthers14-The McCann logo and cheap GU are definitely moneymakers, but the McCann was a steal and the cheap GU are more about the sales than "investing" and hoping that the cards go up. Not taking anything away from either, just pointing it out.

 

[JoshHamilton]

Basically I think it's clear that there are ways to make money in all areas of the card market if one pays close enough attention.

Wow, it took you how many years to realize this?

 

[All The Hype]

Smart move. Interesting read.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

The phrase "alternative investment" sounds funny when used in the OP's context - prospecting is a type of investment activity, not the other way around :lol: sorry, I'm not trying to be mean.

 

[hofautos]

I make the most money when I sell someone who is "IN THE NEWS" regardless of type card...
Buy when players are in slump or not newsworthy when no one wants them, sell when they do something noteworthy.

I made over $1000 on 2001 Ichiro Ultimate by selling his card right when he hit the first in the park home run in a WS and also went 4 for 4.

I made over $500 in a 3 day flip when someone said his card prices were too high and should stay away from them.
I forget the actual amount, but I bought Josh Hamilton's only bgs 9.5 (at the time) rookie ref..three days before the homerun derby. I sold it while he was bombing them away in the 1st round.

Sell cards when a player dies, when they go in hof, as they are leading in HR, wins, etc...whenever they are in the news.

 

[Topnotchsy]

I make the most money when I sell someone who is "IN THE NEWS" regardless of type card...
Buy when players are in slump or not newsworthy when no one wants them, sell when they do something noteworthy.

I made over $1000 on 2001 Ichiro Ultimate by selling his card right when he hit the first in the park home run in a WS and also went 4 for 4.

I made over $500 in a 3 day flip when someone said his card prices were too high and should stay away from them.
I forget the actual amount, but I bought Josh Hamilton's only bgs 9.5 (at the time) rookie ref..three days before the homerun derby. I sold it while he was bombing them away in the 1st round.

Sell cards when a player dies, when they go in hof, as they are leading in HR, wins, etc...whenever they are in the news.

Any idea how the profits on these compare to a player's RC's and RC Auto's? (since you are capitalizing on the same things as many prospectors capitalize on.)

 

[n1astrosfn]

not sure its an investment as much as just a flips but my niche is scouring the internet for nineties cards and letting them ride on the bay. usually im paying less than 10 for any card but the profits add up (with a few losses of course). few recent examples:
ebay: bin 98 griffey precious metals, 98 dlvd. sold for 175 to board member
ebay: no mention of diffractor 98 tek diffractor sosa, 3 dlvd. sold for 35
ebay: manny 2 card lot, pulled the 97 pinnacle mint gold separate 1.96 dlvd, free shipping. sold for 16+
ebay: piazza 98 emerald moment epix /30 3.00 dlvd w/ best offer! and free shipping. sold for 31.00
sportlots: 98 donruss crusade red konerko 20, red millwood 20. sold for 140+ and 80+
sportlots: 00 ud ovation standing ovation sosa /50, 15 dlvd, sold for 88+
sportlots: 96 sportflix artist proof chan ho park 1.35 dlvd, sold for 15+
naxcom: 98 zenith z-team gold griffey 8 dlvd. 41+ sold
beckett: 98 zenith z-gold /100 frank thomas 14.67 dlvd. 45+ sold

blah blah, thats how i roll. thats why im stuck in the nineties.

 

[HoustonTeams4Me]

I think you may have left the most important of factor's out when writing your post above, as the poor economy brought near "everything" in our hobby down below what they normally sell for (so buying anything over the past several months could very well be a "good investment", which really wasn't a science. Also with baseball approaching, MANY player's are beginning to see a noticeable jump in sell value's. Probably the most notable reason in this situation was due to the "newness" of the product many were unaware of these & upon the increase in the product being busted, circulated, & word of mouth; these have picked up the attention of many player collectior's who 3 week's ago had no idea of thier existence! I've seen this occur with many product's (an example can probably be given for just about any product on release & then compared to sells of an SP or insert several weeks after release). I guess the key could be to buying in early on the stuff that you think will be of interest to the masses in a month after release....But isn't that what many of us do anyway??? I know I do.

 

[hofautos]

I make the most money when I sell someone who is "IN THE NEWS" regardless of type card...
Buy when players are in slump or not newsworthy when no one wants them, sell when they do something noteworthy.

I made over $1000 on 2001 Ichiro Ultimate by selling his card right when he hit the first in the park home run in a WS and also went 4 for 4.

I made over $500 in a 3 day flip when someone said his card prices were too high and should stay away from them.
I forget the actual amount, but I bought Josh Hamilton's only bgs 9.5 (at the time) rookie ref..three days before the homerun derby. I sold it while he was bombing them away in the 1st round.

Sell cards when a player dies, when they go in hof, as they are leading in HR, wins, etc...whenever they are in the news.

Any idea how the profits on these compare to a player's RC's and RC Auto's? (since you are capitalizing on the same things as many prospectors capitalize on.)

Whoa, I know prospectors can make a bundle, but they also take a risk in all the players they buy that never pan out. I can't answer for prospecting...it takes time and effort and an addiction that I dont have the time or desire for. I am sure there are many that do VERY WELL, and others who don't do so well. I just know that when I have any cards of a player that I know are going down, I sell (AROD), and if I have cards of a player that is selling like hot potatoes, I sell. .. Sometimes it's hard to let go of someone who is hot, but I have learned over the years, that you can always buy it back later.

 

[Topnotchsy]

I make the most money when I sell someone who is "IN THE NEWS" regardless of type card...
Buy when players are in slump or not newsworthy when no one wants them, sell when they do something noteworthy.

I made over $1000 on 2001 Ichiro Ultimate by selling his card right when he hit the first in the park home run in a WS and also went 4 for 4.

I made over $500 in a 3 day flip when someone said his card prices were too high and should stay away from them.
I forget the actual amount, but I bought Josh Hamilton's only bgs 9.5 (at the time) rookie ref..three days before the homerun derby. I sold it while he was bombing them away in the 1st round.

Sell cards when a player dies, when they go in hof, as they are leading in HR, wins, etc...whenever they are in the news.

Any idea how the profits on these compare to a player's RC's and RC Auto's? (since you are capitalizing on the same things as many prospectors capitalize on.)

Whoa, I know prospectors can make a bundle, but they also take a risk in all the players they buy that never pan out. I can't answer for prospecting...it takes time and effort and an addiction that I dont have the time or desire for. I am sure there are many that do VERY WELL, and others who don't do so well. I just know that when I have any cards of a player that I know are going down, I sell (AROD), and if I have cards of a player that is selling like hot potatoes, I sell. .. Sometimes it's hard to let go of someone who is hot, but I have learned over the years, that you can always buy it back later.

I wasn't making any insinuations, I was just wondering if you had made the comparison. One of the reasons I've looked away from prospecting is because of the risk (and randomness.)

 

[hofautos]

I make the most money when I sell someone who is "IN THE NEWS" regardless of type card...
Buy when players are in slump or not newsworthy when no one wants them, sell when they do something noteworthy.

I made over $1000 on 2001 Ichiro Ultimate by selling his card right when he hit the first in the park home run in a WS and also went 4 for 4.

I made over $500 in a 3 day flip when someone said his card prices were too high and should stay away from them.
I forget the actual amount, but I bought Josh Hamilton's only bgs 9.5 (at the time) rookie ref..three days before the homerun derby. I sold it while he was bombing them away in the 1st round.

Sell cards when a player dies, when they go in hof, as they are leading in HR, wins, etc...whenever they are in the news.

Any idea how the profits on these compare to a player's RC's and RC Auto's? (since you are capitalizing on the same things as many prospectors capitalize on.)

Whoa, I know prospectors can make a bundle, but they also take a risk in all the players they buy that never pan out. I can't answer for prospecting...it takes time and effort and an addiction that I dont have the time or desire for. I am sure there are many that do VERY WELL, and others who don't do so well. I just know that when I have any cards of a player that I know are going down, I sell (AROD), and if I have cards of a player that is selling like hot potatoes, I sell. .. Sometimes it's hard to let go of someone who is hot, but I have learned over the years, that you can always buy it back later.

I wasn't making any insinuations, I was just wondering if you had made the comparison. One of the reasons I've looked away from prospecting is because of the risk (and randomness.)

No, I haven't really compared. I don't buy to sell often, and I know little to nothing about prospecting. I don't really consider any of it investing though...it's more like gambling.

 

[Topnotchsy]

No, I haven't really compared. I don't buy to sell often, and I know little to nothing about prospecting. I don't really consider any of it investing though...it's more like gambling.

Do you considering any investing in cards gambling, or just the art of randomly picking players in the minors based on a post on an online message board?

 

[smapdi]

I made over $1000 on 2001 Ichiro Ultimate by selling his card right when he hit the first in the park home run in a WS and also went 4 for 4.

Considering he's never played in a World Series, that's amazing. Do you mean the 2007 All-Star Game when he went 3-3?

There's money to be shaken out of this hobby if you never google "mlb draft." My pet way is to keep apprised of upcoming releases and jump on appealing-looking short-printed parallels. Within a week or so, news of them filters out to the hobby and there are usually going to be at least a couple people butting heads to complete the set, and player-collectors can also drive prices way up. It can be risky, because not every set starts low or goes high, but at worst you're left with some rare cards that you hopefully didn't pay too much for. I was drooling over 2008 A&G silks for months, but they were hot immediately. 2008 Goudey Sepias #/8, on the other hand, could be picked up usually for the opening bid in the first few weeks. Then a couple people started accumulating them, and I flipped most of my stash.

 

[hofautos]

Do you mean the 2007 All-Star Game when he went 3-3?

Yea, that was what I meant, all-star game (lol)

 

[hofautos]

No, I haven't really compared. I don't buy to sell often, and I know little to nothing about prospecting. I don't really consider any of it investing though...it's more like gambling.

Do you considering any investing in cards gambling, or just the art of randomly picking players in the minors based on a post on an online message board?

I consider anything to do with baseball cards as gambling...investing is 401K, CD's, etc...at least imo...