Andy Pettitte any chance for HOF

[pujolsjunkie]

Others I say will get in where most people say no:
berkman
walker
helton
holliday
beltran
damon

Berkman and Helton, I believe will...the others either too early or no.

Helton at Coors: .361 AVG, .458 OBP, .642 SLG, 1.100 OPS
Helton away from Coors: .294 AVG, .395 OBP, .489 SLG, .885 OPS

So basically, he's a very good player that played in what was a hitters' paradise for most of his career before they nerfed it to be more neutral recently.

 

[matfanofold]

Pettitte is a very good pitcher that has had moments of stardom and post season glory throughout his career. You can not really say "if he was not a Yankee..", because he was, and he did have a hand in making them great. Yet, I do not think he ever really captured the fame and/or level of greatness required to make the grade of HOF'er.

I think he will fall in to the catagory of a Oral Hershiser, Jimmy Key, Frank Viola type player with team and local fame, but no pass to the hall..

 

[Card Magnet]

if he pitches 5 more years and gets to 300 wins, i think he will get in...mark my words...there were doubters about jeter just 5 short years ago.

Really? I don't believe there were.

Yes, really - more people believed he wouldn't get in than he would get in.

I gotta tell you, even with the "over-rated" years falling when I worked at a card shop....I've never heard anyone say he wouldn't be a HOF'er.

You must not have been on BMB and read the jeter threads 5-6 years ago. I am not making it up.

Was that a legitimate discussion, or was it tainted by Jeter haters?

 

[thenumberonemetfan]

Very good pitcher that could handle a big game but unless he wins another 50-60 games he wont make it

 

[zach]

Pettitte HOF - NO

Pettitte Monument Park - YES

 

[blitzerlover]

Pettitte may have the most post season wins, but he isn't anywhere near the best big game pitcher ever.

 

[Frow]

[quote="hofautos":rld0iofv]if he pitches 5 more years and gets to 300 wins, i think he will get in...mark my words...there were doubters about jeter just 5 short years ago.

Really? I don't believe there were.

Yes, really - more people believed he wouldn't get in than he would get in.

I gotta tell you, even with the "over-rated" years falling when I worked at a card shop....I've never heard anyone say he wouldn't be a HOF'er.

You must not have been on BMB and read the jeter threads 5-6 years ago. I am not making it up.

Was that a legitimate discussion, or was it tainted by Jeter haters?[/quote:rld0iofv]


Doesn't really matter. Basing the point of view that everyone has on one player based on a few discussions on one board despite every one else in the world apparently feeling the opposite is fairly silly.

Speaking of which reading some of these lists of future HOFer's I would have to say the decade of the 90's-00 has been a pathetic point in baseball if this is what we consider hall worthy.

 

[bodiaz]

Others I say will get in where most people say no:
berkman
walker
helton
holliday
beltran
damon

Non of them deserve a single vote! This is the HALL OF FAME! See what happens when turds like Ozzie Smith and Goose Gossage get in?!? Lowers the standards!

 

[Card Magnet]

^ Ozzie Smith deserves to be in.

 

[bodiaz]

This is how HOF should be based. Throw out 300 wins because it was much more attainable in the past. Throw out 500 homers because it is much easier now.

Here is criteria that should be used:

1. How does he measure against his peers?
2. Was he ever the best pitcher or player on his own team?
3. Was he ever at any point a top 10 player in his league?
4. How many times did he finish top 3 of MVP or Cy Young voting?
5. How feared was he? (Subjective I know.)
6. Did the play entire career in hitters/pitchers park?

Let's use these criteria on the list of turds brought up here:


berkman-see #6. I think he is the best player on this list, but not enough yet.
walker-see #6. VERY good to great player, did not do it long enough.
helton-#6 strongly apllies here! Also was only great for aroun5 years. Very average since.
holliday-#6. needs at least 10 more years of star quality ball. Not even close yet.
beltran-Need 5 more or so bery strong seasons!
damon-No chance! Played in Fenway and Yankees banboxes! Was very average in KC and Oak!
Pettite-No chance-Fails all criteria.
Ozzie Smith-Fails on all criteria miserably!

 

[thenumberonemetfan]

Others I say will get in where most people say no:
berkman
walker
helton
holliday
beltran
damon

Non of them deserve a single vote! This is the HALL OF FAME! See what happens when turds like Ozzie Smith and Goose Gossage get in?!? Lowers the standards!

Damon has a legitimate shot at 3000 hits and he doesnt deserve a single vote?

And Beltran has a chance(barring a career ending injury) to be only the 2nd player in baseball history to steal 400 bases and hit 400 hrs....behind your favorite player Barry Bonds,while this is the homer in me speaking it doesnt make it any less true.

Not saying they'll make it but to say they dont deserve a vote is crazy.

 

[Card Magnet]

Ozzie Smith's highlights, quickly copied from Wikipedia. Not to mention what he did for the game. he brought a new level of excitement and entertainment.

# 15× All-Star selection (1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996)
# 13× Gold Glove Award winner (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992)
# Silver Slugger Award winner (1987)
# World Series champion (1982)
# 1995 Roberto Clemente Award
# 1994 Branch Rickey Award
# 1989 Lou Gehrig Memorial Award
# 1985 NLCS MVP

Batting average .262
Hits 2,460
Stolen bases 580
Fielding percentage .978

 

[jflan702]

I don't think he has a shot. His numbers just aren't close enough for me.

Maybe he would fit better here: http://www.hallofverygood.com/

Thanks,

 

[bodiaz]

Ozzie Smith's highlights, quickly copied from Wikipedia. Not to mention what he did for the game. he brought a new level of excitement and entertainment.

# 15× All-Star selection (1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996)Played in NL when SS was VERY WEAK! If he had playe din AL he may have had 3!
# 13× Gold Glove Award winner (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992)He was very good with the glove!
# Silver Slugger Award winner (1987)Won it with 0 homers and under .300 BAtting average! Shows how the media overrated his sorry ass!# World Series champion (1982)
# 1995 Roberto Clemente AwardLady Bing! Who cares! The fact that you brought this up to make this pathetic list longer is funny!
# 1994 Branch Rickey AwardSee above
# 1989 Lou Gehrig Memorial Awardsee above
# 1985 NLCS MVPPat Borders was WS MVP, got lucky once in his sorry life!

Batting average .262Pathetic for a non power hitter! People give McGwire crap for his average, and he hit homers!
Hits 2,460 Averaged under 160 a year as a top of the order guy, and did not get on base in general!
Stolen bases 580 He was fast! Put him in!
Fielding percentage .978

This list is proof that he has no business being in! Oh, you forgot his 28 career Home Runs. That would actually help your argument!

 

[Card Magnet]

Ozzie Smith's highlights, quickly copied from Wikipedia. Not to mention what he did for the game. he brought a new level of excitement and entertainment.

# 15× All-Star selection (1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996)Played in NL when SS was VERY WEAK! If he had playe din AL he may have had 3!
# 13× Gold Glove Award winner (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992)He was very good with the glove!
# Silver Slugger Award winner (1987)Won it with 0 homers and under .300 BAtting average! Shows how the media overrated his sorry ass!# World Series champion (1982)
# 1995 Roberto Clemente AwardLady Bing! Who cares! The fact that you brought this up to make this pathetic list longer is funny!
# 1994 Branch Rickey AwardSee above
# 1989 Lou Gehrig Memorial Awardsee above
# 1985 NLCS MVPPat Borders was WS MVP, got lucky once in his sorry life!

Batting average .262Pathetic for a non power hitter! People give McGwire crap for his average, and he hit homers!
Hits 2,460 Averaged under 160 a year as a top of the order guy, and did not get on base in general!
Stolen bases 580 He was fast! Put him in!
Fielding percentage .978

This list is proof that he has no business being in! Oh, you forgot his 28 career Home Runs. That would actually help your argument!

Forgive me for not editing out the couple of awards that don't really matter. I should have said that it was quickly copied from Wikipedia...oh yea. I should never put faith in people to be able to comprehend things, like what is important from a list like that.

You're right, his fielding has nothing to do with baseball. Fielders who can play good defense are worth nothing. Knowing when to steal a base means nothing, and the Hall shouldn't recognize the athleticism of players. Being in shape is pathetic. It's all pathetic. The fact that he set a record for double plays is pathetic.

The amount of fans he drew in to watching baseball is pathetic. The Hall not just being for hitting home runs, but also for what people do for the game as a whole is pathetic. Since Ozzie didn't juice to give him a little extra when he hit the ball is pathetic. Clean and classy players deserve no respect or recognition. Also, being the face of a team from a certain period is pathetic.

A whopping 39 of 472 HOF voters in 2002 agree, Ozzie Smith is pathetic.

 

[matfanofold]

Anyone who actually watched baseball in the 80's would know why the wizzard is in the hall of fame. Anyone who is arguing his validity needs to put the calculator down and recite what HOF stands for a few dozen times till it sinks in. Ozzie was a face of baseball, an embassador to the game and a true talent to watch for well over a decade. He is exactly what the HOF was created for despite all the statistic ****** who calculate a HOF'ers worth with out ever watching him play.

It's an insult to the game of baseball and to whoever tries to downplay Ozzie with statistics alone. I could make an argument that the earth is not a planet, but it would not make it so.. The undenyable FACT is Ozzie is in the Hall of Fame, despite personal opinion, and rightfully so.

 

[Card Magnet]

Anyone who actually watched baseball in the 80's would know why the wizzard is in the hall of fame. Anyone who is arguing his validity needs to put the calculator down and recite what HOF stands for a few dozen times till it sinks in. Ozzie was a face of baseball, an embassador to the game and a true talent to watch for well over a decade. He is exactly what the HOF was created for despite all the statistic ****** who calculate a HOF'ers worth with out ever watching him play.

It's an insult to the game of baseball and to whoever tries to downplay Ozzie with statistics alone. I could make an argument that the earth is not a planet, but it would not make it so..

Very well put.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Anyone who actually watched baseball in the 80's would know why the wizzard is in the hall of fame. Anyone who is arguing his validity needs to put the calculator down and recite what HOF stands for a few dozen times till it sinks in. Ozzie was a face of baseball, an embassador to the game and a true talent to watch for well over a decade. He is exactly what the HOF was created for despite all the statistic ****** who calculate a HOF'ers worth with out ever watching him play.

It's an insult to the game of baseball and to whoever tries to downplay Ozzie with statistics alone. I could make an argument that the earth is not a planet, but it would not make it so..

Very well put.

I concur. I have said many times here that it is not the hall of stats.

 

[bodiaz]

No, it is the hall of let every light hitting great gloved player in! Why stop at Ozzie? Let's add these guys who were GREAT fielders but couldn't hit for power or average!

Devon White
Gary Pettis
Dick Schofield
Spike Owen
JOse Lind
Rey Ordonez
Omar Vizquel
Jerry Remy
Bob Boone
Mike Matheny
Bengi Molina
J. T. Snow


see my point?!? You HAVE to be a good hitter to get in unless you are a pitcher. Fielding is important towards winning, not toward being a HOFer! HOF is best of the best! Not just good at one thing! Dave Kingman is not in because he only hit Home Runs and could do nothing else! Ozzie could only field! You cannot let guys in that hit .261 as a top of the order guy with 28 career home runs! I don't care if he never made a single error his whole career!, BTW, Ozzie made plenty!

 

[Card Magnet]

No, it is the hall of let every light hitting great gloved player in! Why stop at Ozzie? Let's add these guys who were GREAT fielders but couldn't hit for power or average!

Devon White
Gary Pettis
Dick Schofield
Spike Owen
JOse Lind
Rey Ordonez
Omar Vizquel
Jerry Remy
Bob Boone
Mike Matheny
Bengi Molina
J. T. Snow


see my point?!? You HAVE to be a good hitter to get in unless you are a pitcher. Fielding is important towards winning, not toward being a HOFer! HOF is best of the best! Not just good at one thing! Dave Kingman is not in because he only hit Home Runs and could do nothing else! Ozzie could only field! You cannot let guys in that hit .261 as a top of the order guy with 28 career home runs! I don't care if he never made a single error his whole career!, BTW, Ozzie made plenty!

To say Ozzie is on the same level as the guys you listed is insane. Of course Oz had some errors, but his fielding ranks with some of the other HOF SS...

Ozzie had a career fielding % of .978.
Ernie Banks - .986
Ripken Jr - .977
Luis Aparicio - .972
Luke Appling - .948
Robin Yount - .972

Ozzie Smith had a career OBP of .337 and 3,084 total bases (580 stolen bases).
Ernie Banks - .333, 4,706 (50)
Ripken Jr - .340, 5,168 (36)
Luis Aparicio - .311, 3,504 (506)
Luke Appling - .399, 3,528 (179)
Robin Yount - .342, 4,730 (271)



When it's the Hall of Home Runs, then maybe I'll agree with you. Until then, character, fielding, and what you do for the game count just as much as cracking out HRs.