Are ebay sellers screwing things up for auto collectors?

[predatorkj]

This has been brought up hot and heavy over the last several weeks.I have been to a lot of football signings and apparently there is some bad blood between people hosting free autograph events and people selling items signed at these events they get for free.I never have noticed it as bad as its been this year.

Let me say I collect basketball, football ,and baseball autos as well as other autos of people worth getting(a while back I got Rampage Jackson at a local signing for free on a UFC strike glove).Now...I can always get these things for free(minus your time, gas, and cost of item) because they always seem to be having some kind of free signing around town somewhere.But I have noticed more and more that they are really cracking down on not only how many items you can get signed, but also what you can get signed and also what you have to do and go through to get the item signed.Since football season is right around the corner....naturally they are doing a lot more football oriented signings right now.This is the worst I have ever seen them be about signing stuff.

Now at the Texans training camp every day they gave the first 100 people through the gate a wristband.If you got one then you were eligible to receive free autos after the practice.Every day they had 9-15 players sign autographs for the people.But a lot of people I noticed were getting really upset for many reasons.This year they only allowed one item per person.Basically say you wanted Mario Williams on an authentic football and everyone else on a team helmet or football...you couldn't do it.You either got one or the other.Plus they were switching days so nobody knew who would be there and they didn't tell you until like 15 minutes before they signed.One of my friends complained about some of the stuff going on and the lady in charge basically told him they were trying to cut back on people getting the free autos and then selling them on ebay.He was also told that its getting pretty bad because people are trying to sneak extra things in like extra photos or kids who don't give a rats hind end about it but are just basically being used to get the autograph.I am not gonna lie...the last day of the training camp autos I had a friend get her little boy(who doesn't care a lick about football and wasn't getting anything signed but had to be there anyways because his mother was there) get Andre Johnson on my mini helmet.But I was there for 13 hours or so to get the autographs so I didn't feel bad for breaking their rules and he was excited since he had something to actually do as opposed to standing around.

But basically it was all done to keep people from being able to get premium items to sell sell on ebay.

Then we have the whole Longhorns fan appreciation day thing.They had us fill out cards.

Here is an example of one.

In any case they are hardcore about not selling anything on ebay whatsoever.What we were told in line was that they were worried that the players NCAA eligibility might become jeopardized if someone were to sell their items because then someone could say one of the athletes was making money from items they signed for someone.Basically like having someone selling the items for them?


In any case I am starting to notice every single auto event I go to they are doing everything possible to make it harder and harder to sell items because they basically have something in place to keep you from loading up or getting good stuff, or a good auto(anyone attending this years fan appreciation day at UT will notice Colt McCoy changed his signature and its really abbreviated now and also Mario Williams and Andre Johnson of the Texans have really altered theirs to be pretty bad as well)or you can only get one item signed or whatever(even if there is more than one player).

To me...I don't normally make a stink because I am just a collector but I think its dumb as hell to have random players show up and then not allow me to get what i want signed.I mean...if you really want to be technical...back it up with some facts right?The time it takes you to drive to one of these events, coupled with the gas money it costs, on top of having to take off from work, plus the item you have to buy to get signed...hell...you can't make any money off of these things.Like the Texans training camp...I could have gotten any of those guys on an authentic NFL football and it still wouldn't have paid for all of that.Hell...the football alone costs $90.

My point is I think these events should be a little less disciplined or they should just stop them altogether.If I am told I can get something signed I don't want a bunch of catches thrown in .Like a buddy of mine said as well...whatever they do...it will never deter the sellers.If someone wants to do it they will find a way.I say let them.Its certainly not hurting the athlete and if someone goes through all that trouble I think they deserve to do what they want to with the item.Besides...after all the trouble...did they actually make any money?No.There are very few athletes you can make any money on if you have to go through all this trouble.And honestly...does it matter that much to them?Do the promoters or the athletes really care that much?I mean...there are only two ways you can get an auto these days.Either paying out the nose at show or spending a ridiculous amount of time in line.In either case you end up paying one way or another for the auto you get.Its almost like its better to go to a show than it is to attend these free things.And I have noticed since I have been doing this...the free events are normally during the day and during the week when most normal people are at work.Its funny how they have it set up that way.I guess they try to eliminate as many people as possible at each event.They also love to hold them in some out of the way areas.

Anybody else feel like some of these events are being run with too much of an emphasis on detering ebay sellers but instead they are really just affecting the actual collectors and fans?

 

[Gwynn545]

Whew! Just got done reading that post! My eyes hurt! :lol:

I totally agree! I lived in Phoenix for a few years and went to a lot of spring training practices, and I rememebr a huge fight (seriously) between George Brett and a couple of fans he accused of selling...It ended with George yelling, "That's why I hate you autograph people! NO more...No more!" and walked away.

A few weeks ago, at Seahawks training camp, they gave out 100 wristbands to kids that spun a wheel and landed on the right spot. My son and daughter won. These kids stood in line at the end and was able to get 8 autographs. My son only wanted one...TJ Houzmanzadah on a football... he got it and walked away and showed it to me. The other players got pretty upset when thay saw that. I can only imagine what they were thinking...

 

[predatorkj]

Whew! Just got done reading that post! My eyes hurt! :lol:

I totally agree! I lived in Phoenix for a few years and went to a lot of spring training practices, and I rememebr a huge fight (seriously) between George Brett and a couple of fans he accused of selling...It ended with George yelling, "That's why I hate you autograph people! NO more...No more!" and walked away.

A few weeks ago, at Seahawks training camp, they gave out 100 wristbands to kids that spun a wheel and landed on the right spot. My son and daughter won. These kids stood in line at the end and was able to get 8 autographs. My son only wanted one...TJ Houzmanzadah on a football... he got it and walked away and showed it to me. The other players got pretty upset when thay saw that. I can only imagine what they were thinking...

Sorry but you knew damn well if it was me posting it was gonna be a long read! ::facepalm:: :lol:

J/K

In any case I do understand that an athlete, at times, can be a little deterred if he is sitting their signing just at a game or something but even then I still had to pay for the item,tickets, parking, and gas.Nothing is free no matter how you look at it.

As for your son...good for him.He got who he wanted.That is all that counts.I saw a guy go through the line at the Texans thing and all he got was Mario on a football.He apologized to the other players and said he wanted their autos as well but he said he had brought the football before the camp started thinking he would be able to get whoever he wanted on whatever item he had and didn't know until it started that he wouldn't be able to do that.He had paid $90 for the football so he was getting Mario to sign it.If that meant he couldn't get anybody else to sign it...oh well.A couple of the players didn't seem to care so they tried to sign for a few people anyways but anyone caught trying to get more than one item signed got told to leave.

My take is they have a limited amount of people who can get the autos in the first place.Its not like there are a million people.Its once a year too.So they ought to at least let people get a minimum of two things to bring through the line.Maybe max out at 5 or something.But it certainly won't hurt too much time wise.

All I know is each step they take to try to deter the ebay dealers just sets the collectors back a step.Most people I talk to agree.I do know we have a few people on this board(I won't name names) that get all high and mighty and act like the athlete doesn't owe you any favors and you should be happy you got anything.I don't agree.I figure if you are going to bother to sign...do it how I ask or don't do it at all.It would be like relying on a buddy to help you out and he even agrees to but in the end he ends up not doing what he said he would and you are left without accomplishing your goal.Sure it was nice of him to offer his help but how much has he helped if he didn't do as you asked?Not at all.

And when you put all the time and effort into getting one of these autos at signing like this...you do start to expect something.And the whole "Well nobody forced you to go" excuse is lame and doesn't cut it with me.I am a fan.I support your team by the tickets I purchase to go to your games and the merchandise I buy featuring you or your teams logo and the cards I buy that the player's union gets a cut of from your likeness being on the cards.You or your promoters set the event up....not me.I am not forcing you to sign...the promoters are.So do us both a favor and give me a nice autograph.That way we both walk away happy.You fulfilled your obligation to the promoter and I got a nice piece for my collection.

 

[Brad]

Yes they are. Steve Smith turned into an ass once people started selling his stuff. Uncertified autos are not worth it anyways. Then after you pay for certification they are not worth it anyways. I like getting them because I collect. I keep mine except for the occasional trade, but I never sold any.

 

[deceptikon1978]

I completely understand their point of view on this. They take the time to sign for the fans not some greedy SOB who is trying to make a few bucks. I can also see the NCAA point of view because they don't want the legal hassle of players being accused of selling their autographs and the players making money off of it. I was at a Marques Colston signing a couple years ago, it cost $30 for an auto. They sold 500 tickets but he let them sell more tickets and stayed and signed for a few hundred more. That night tons of Colston autos showed up on the bay. If that was me signing extras like that I know I would be pissed. It has also hurt getting TTM autos, I can think of a few guys (Montana, Bradshaw) who used to be good signers but have since stopped because of people selling the stuff they get.

 

[jeff550]

thats why i will never sell any of my ttm autos except for one. and the only reason i might sell one is because the card its on is a card i never want to look at.

 

[predatorkj]

I completely understand their point of view on this. They take the time to sign for the fans not some greedy SOB who is trying to make a few bucks. I can also see the NCAA point of view because they don't want the legal hassle of players being accused of selling their autographs and the players making money off of it. I was at a Marques Colston signing a couple years ago, it cost $30 for an auto. They sold 500 tickets but he let them sell more tickets and stayed and signed for a few hundred more. That night tons of Colston autos showed up on the bay. If that was me signing extras like that I know I would be pissed. It has also hurt getting TTM autos, I can think of a few guys (Montana, Bradshaw) who used to be good signers but have since stopped because of people selling the stuff they get.

I do see that side of things but they have to know that no matter what...its going to happen.About the only thing they can do to eliminate this is to start making promo cards(maybe 5x7 inch cards) and having the player sign only those(no outside items) and personalize every single one of them.That keeps the ebay sellers from not only getting a nice item but also from being able to take the personalization off.I know plenty of people who collect for collecting's sake but they don't like it when the athlete makes it out to them so they are pretty good at being able to take the personalizations off of whatever they get signed.With a piece of paper or card stock signed in marker it makes it pretty impossible to do without screwing the item up.

My point is they are not only going to piss the sellers off but it will drive away fans too.

Take Earl Campbell for instance.I want him very badly on an authentic football or an Oilers mini.But if I were told I could have neither and had to only get what they want me to have I would just pass.Hell...I can go online and find autos of the stuff I want auto'd or if worst came to worst I could just get a certified on card auto.Going and getting IP autos is all about getting what you want signed and nothing else.

I know they may get mad people are selling their stuff but to change up your sig or to make a crappy attempt so its not very appealing or to only sign certain items kills it for the fans too.The people that spend $300 for your jersey and the people who collect your cards and pay to go to the games to see you play.In my mind its like cutting off your nose to spite your face.And for pro athletes...it really shouldn't matter.No its not your duty to sign and you don't have to but really...if you are making millions a year...should it really bother you that much if someone waits in line forever, and is out a lot of personal time and money, and then sells the item they got you to sign?Seriously...what have they done to you?What have they accomplished?How does that bug you that much?

 

[predatorkj]

Yes they are. Steve Smith turned into an ass once people started selling his stuff. Uncertified autos are not worth it anyways. Then after you pay for certification they are not worth it anyways. I like getting them because I collect. I keep mine except for the occasional trade, but I never sold any.

Little do these show or event promoters know, but if you combine all the crap you have to go through to get a nice item signed and ready to sell(with authentication and whatnot) its totally not worth your time to sell the item unless you are getting them in bulk and are able to get the items you are getting signed pretty cheap.People just normally aren't willing to pay that much for an IP auto without some sort of authentication(I know I am not) so the ability to make that much money really flies out the window once you go through the necessary steps to do so.

 

[deceptikon1978]

I agree. Changing up your sig is just a dick move, and the people waiting in line for hours on end (most of which are true fans) should be able to get what they want signed. In any case no matter what they do to prevent it some people are gonna try and get a free auto to sell.

 

[predatorkj]

I agree. Changing up your sig is just a dick move, and the people waiting in line for hours on end (most of which are true fans) should be able to get what they want signed. In any case no matter what they do to prevent it some people are gonna try and get a free auto to sell.

Well...I don't mind it as much but the problem is it kinda negates, like you said, the whole reason for being there because the people there are mostly fans.Everybody I have spoken to has pretty much agreed there is just no way the sellers are making much, if any money, on any of this stuff.

 

[the1mcjensen]

most of these players can go screw themselves. the people in authority use ebay as a scapegoat to prevent them from signing, which keeps the halo on these guys heads which would break if they turned down an auto request.

i have 1000s of autographs in my collection that i have gotten in person over the last 12 years or so and i hear that bs line all the time. sorry i cant sign, you might sell it on ebay. gimme a break. one of these days, i am gonna bring a laptop with me and show them what their stuff really sells for. unless its favre, manning, etc you wont get jack crap most of the time.

like mentioned before, you buy their merchandise, you put money in their pocket. signing autographs is part of the job in my opinion. if you dont want to sign, dont get into the business because we are the fans who put that ridiculous money in your pocket.

i had a one on one opportunity with steve smith 2 years ago at espn the weekend and i was wearing a smith jersey and a panthers hat and asked him to sign my team helmet and he wouldnt. what a ******, get over yourself.

anywho, to end my rant, its not ebay sellers persay, but people like steve smith, who see what people pay on their own sites or nfl.com and assume that everything sells for that price.

 

[predatorkj]

most of these players can go screw themselves. the people in authority use ebay as a scapegoat to prevent them from signing, which keeps the halo on these guys heads which would break if they turned down an auto request.

i have 1000s of autographs in my collection that i have gotten in person over the last 12 years or so and i hear that bs line all the time. sorry i cant sign, you might sell it on ebay. gimme a break. one of these days, i am gonna bring a laptop with me and show them what their stuff really sells for. unless its favre, manning, etc you wont get jack crap most of the time.

like mentioned before, you buy their merchandise, you put money in their pocket. signing autographs is part of the job in my opinion. if you dont want to sign, dont get into the business because we are the fans who put that ridiculous money in your pocket.

i had a one on one opportunity with steve smith 2 years ago at espn the weekend and i was wearing a smith jersey and a panthers hat and asked him to sign my team helmet and he wouldnt. what a ******, get over yourself.

anywho, to end my rant, its not ebay sellers persay, but people like steve smith, who see what people pay on their own sites or nfl.com and assume that everything sells for that price.

Someone at one time or another did mention that it was purely because the athletes were afraid that their auto's value would go down if they signed a whole lot for free.I do know my local shop owner was complaining about Bagwell and Vince Young items because those are two big sellers but supposedly they charge so much for their time that the person doing the private signing or the show has to charge way too much for each item signed.One guy even mentioned Vince charges $100,000 for four hours.I believe from what I have heard someone of Magic Johnson's ilk charges $30,000 per hour with a minimum of two hours.At these prices its why they charge so much for a lot of these guys.Its also why Vince rarely, if ever, does any pre-ordained shows down here any more.It simply costs too much to have him sign.