Best chance at MLB/hobby superstar-dom (2010-2011 rookies)

[sportscardtheory]

i wouldnt call mauer, cabrera, or utley "hobby" superstars

You also don't think that Randy Johnson is a HOFer. Your opinion is pretty useless.

so 10 dollar autos equate to hobby superstardom? in addition, I was just listing the players from your original list that I do not believe are hobby stars, and would like to add jeter is a hobby star but a terrible player and not an MLB star

Yeaaah.

 

[Topnotchsy]

i wouldnt call mauer, cabrera, or utley "hobby" superstars

You also don't think that Randy Johnson is a HOFer. Your opinion is pretty useless.

so 10 dollar autos equate to hobby superstardom? in addition, I was just listing the players from your original list that I do not believe are hobby stars, and would like to add jeter is a hobby star but a terrible player and not an MLB star

Other than the comment about Jeter, I have to agree with this. Anyone whose autograph goes for $10 or so is not a hobby star in the traditional sense. Jeter, Arod, Pujols, Ichiro, Griffey etc. are hobby stars. Cabrera, Mauer, Utley, Vlad etc. are not IMO.

That being said, one does not need to be a hobby star on a global level to have very valuable RC and RC autograph cards. Mauer's Bowman Chrome Rookie Autograph (and parallels) still sell really well and were much hotter in the past. Cabrera's Topps Traded RC Auto is a $400-$500 card (one that IMO still has room to grow.) There's a lot of room for value in rookie cards even if a player never hits global popularity.

 

[sportscardtheory]

i wouldnt call mauer, cabrera, or utley "hobby" superstars

You also don't think that Randy Johnson is a HOFer. Your opinion is pretty useless.

so 10 dollar autos equate to hobby superstardom? in addition, I was just listing the players from your original list that I do not believe are hobby stars, and would like to add jeter is a hobby star but a terrible player and not an MLB star

Other than the comment about Jeter, I have to agree with this. Anyone whose autograph goes for $10 or so is not a hobby star in the traditional sense. Jeter, Arod, Pujols, Ichiro, Griffey etc. are hobby stars. Cabrera, Mauer, Utley, Vlad etc. are not IMO.

That being said, one does not need to be a hobby star on a global level to have very valuable RC and RC autograph cards. Mauer's Bowman Chrome Rookie Autograph (and parallels) still sell really well and were much hotter in the past. Cabrera's Topps Traded RC Auto is a $400-$500 card (one that IMO still has room to grow.) There's a lot of room for value in rookie cards even if a player never hits global popularity.

It's really not a thing. This idiot kid is focused on it for some reason as if I was making some kind of statement about the collectibility of Cabrera and Utley. I wasn't. I simply threw a few names out there. I understand there are probably a couple 3rd basemen who outsell Cabrera and a couple 2nd baseman who outsell Utley, but who really cares.

 

[Topnotchsy]

i wouldnt call mauer, cabrera, or utley "hobby" superstars

You also don't think that Randy Johnson is a HOFer. Your opinion is pretty useless.

so 10 dollar autos equate to hobby superstardom? in addition, I was just listing the players from your original list that I do not believe are hobby stars, and would like to add jeter is a hobby star but a terrible player and not an MLB star

Other than the comment about Jeter, I have to agree with this. Anyone whose autograph goes for $10 or so is not a hobby star in the traditional sense. Jeter, Arod, Pujols, Ichiro, Griffey etc. are hobby stars. Cabrera, Mauer, Utley, Vlad etc. are not IMO.

That being said, one does not need to be a hobby star on a global level to have very valuable RC and RC autograph cards. Mauer's Bowman Chrome Rookie Autograph (and parallels) still sell really well and were much hotter in the past. Cabrera's Topps Traded RC Auto is a $400-$500 card (one that IMO still has room to grow.) There's a lot of room for value in rookie cards even if a player never hits global popularity.

It's really not a thing. This idiot kid is focused on it for some reason as if I was making some kind of statement about the collectibility of Cabrera and Utley. I wasn't. I simply threw a few names out there. I understand there are probably a couple 3rd basemen who outsell Cabrera and a couple 2nd baseman who outsell Utley, but who really cares.

I know miggy has earned his reputation (and wears it well...) but I do think that within the context of this thread it is a pretty valid point. When we look at projections of stardom in the hobby (and is how I understood the post) there are different ways to look at it. One simply way to gauge hobby stardom is by how well their signatures sell (although as mentioned in my post above, a low sale price for regular auto's does not preclude the market from paying huge prices for RC Auto's.)

 

[All The Hype]

I have a hard time seeing how anyone can leave Stanton out of their top 2 from this list. Power like that comes maybe once every decade or two; and I think he'll ultimately hit for pretty good average too.


It was very difficult to not vote for Hosmer or Castro, but Strasburg was my second pick for similar power as Stanton, only from the mound rather than at the plate. TJS hasn't stopped too many pitchers from regaining top form in recent years, and Strasburg at or near top form has the stuff to be one of the best in the game.


What separates these two from the others on this list is what I'll call "the electric factor"--meaning they have the 500+ foot homerun power and the 100+mph arm and the 50+ homerun potential and the 15+ strikeouts in a game potential. These are things that few human beings are physically capable of doing, and players who perform at a level that awes people are the kind of players who find stardom and whose cards sell for astronomical prices on a consistant basis.

That's totally hyperbolic. There are plenty of power hitters like that (and better) over a 10 year or 20 year period. Can you really not name another power hitter from the last 20 years as good or better than Stanton? Barry Bonds? Frank Thomas? Mark McGwire? Sammy Sosa? Shoot, Bryce Harper has more power than Stanton.

Bonds, Sosa, McGwire are all PED users, so I think most would agree that while they all would have been great power hitters anyway, their performance and numbers are tainted and therefore can't really be used as comparison to a non-PED user.

Thomas and Stanton are definitely comparable based on what Stanton has shown so far in his young career, but you have to go back to 1990 when Thomas made his debut (22 years ago). Obviously he played through the 90s and into the 00s, but their careers began about 20 years apart.

Regardless, the "hyperbolic" point is simply that players like Stanton don't grow on trees. Furthermore, every single player you named was a superstar and I believe all of them had a pretty nice card following, which essentially proves my point that players like this are superstars on the field and in the baseball card world.

As for Harper having more power than Stanton...based on what we've seen from both players so far, no he doesn't.
Harper hit 14 homeruns at age 18 in 258 ABs in Class A, or a homer every 18.4 AB.
Stanton hit 39 homeruns at age 18 in 468 ABs in the same Class A league two seasons prior, or a homer every 12 AB.

 

[Wes]

[quote="All The Hype":2vwt40gl]I have a hard time seeing how anyone can leave Stanton out of their top 2 from this list. Power like that comes maybe once every decade or two; and I think he'll ultimately hit for pretty good average too.


It was very difficult to not vote for Hosmer or Castro, but Strasburg was my second pick for similar power as Stanton, only from the mound rather than at the plate. TJS hasn't stopped too many pitchers from regaining top form in recent years, and Strasburg at or near top form has the stuff to be one of the best in the game.


What separates these two from the others on this list is what I'll call "the electric factor"--meaning they have the 500+ foot homerun power and the 100+mph arm and the 50+ homerun potential and the 15+ strikeouts in a game potential. These are things that few human beings are physically capable of doing, and players who perform at a level that awes people are the kind of players who find stardom and whose cards sell for astronomical prices on a consistant basis.

That's totally hyperbolic. There are plenty of power hitters like that (and better) over a 10 year or 20 year period. Can you really not name another power hitter from the last 20 years as good or better than Stanton? Barry Bonds? Frank Thomas? Mark McGwire? Sammy Sosa? Shoot, Bryce Harper has more power than Stanton.

Bonds, Sosa, McGwire are all PED users, so I think most would agree that while they all would have been great power hitters anyway, their performance and numbers are tainted and therefore can't really be used as comparison to a non-PED user.

Thomas and Stanton are definitely comparable based on what Stanton has shown so far in his young career, but you have to go back to 1990 when Thomas made his debut (22 years ago). Obviously he played through the 90s and into the 00s, but their careers began about 20 years apart.

Regardless, the "hyperbolic" point is simply that players like Stanton don't grow on trees. Furthermore, every single player you named was a superstar and I believe all of them had a pretty nice card following, which essentially proves my point that players like this are superstars on the field and in the baseball card world.

As for Harper having more power than Stanton...based on what we've seen from both players so far, no he doesn't.
Harper hit 14 homeruns at age 18 in 258 ABs in Class A, or a homer every 18.4 AB.
Stanton hit 39 homeruns at age 18 in 468 ABs in the same Class A league two seasons prior, or a homer every 12 AB.[/quote:2vwt40gl]

That isn't a fair comparison. Playing a full season at a minor league level inflates your numbers as the premier players in the league are promoted. In addition, it's a tiny sample size. From a pure scouting perspective, Harper has more power than Stanton.

Anyways, Stanton has fabulous power, but my point was that guys like that come along more than once a decade or two. There are always multiple players in the league who have similar usable or similar raw power. Besides Harper, Cabrera, Pujols, Upton and Dunn are players with similar combinations of actualized power.

 

[All The Hype]

[quote="All The Hype":3ddgia0k]I have a hard time seeing how anyone can leave Stanton out of their top 2 from this list. Power like that comes maybe once every decade or two; and I think he'll ultimately hit for pretty good average too.


It was very difficult to not vote for Hosmer or Castro, but Strasburg was my second pick for similar power as Stanton, only from the mound rather than at the plate. TJS hasn't stopped too many pitchers from regaining top form in recent years, and Strasburg at or near top form has the stuff to be one of the best in the game.


What separates these two from the others on this list is what I'll call "the electric factor"--meaning they have the 500+ foot homerun power and the 100+mph arm and the 50+ homerun potential and the 15+ strikeouts in a game potential. These are things that few human beings are physically capable of doing, and players who perform at a level that awes people are the kind of players who find stardom and whose cards sell for astronomical prices on a consistant basis.

That's totally hyperbolic. There are plenty of power hitters like that (and better) over a 10 year or 20 year period. Can you really not name another power hitter from the last 20 years as good or better than Stanton? Barry Bonds? Frank Thomas? Mark McGwire? Sammy Sosa? Shoot, Bryce Harper has more power than Stanton.

Bonds, Sosa, McGwire are all PED users, so I think most would agree that while they all would have been great power hitters anyway, their performance and numbers are tainted and therefore can't really be used as comparison to a non-PED user.

Thomas and Stanton are definitely comparable based on what Stanton has shown so far in his young career, but you have to go back to 1990 when Thomas made his debut (22 years ago). Obviously he played through the 90s and into the 00s, but their careers began about 20 years apart.

Regardless, the "hyperbolic" point is simply that players like Stanton don't grow on trees. Furthermore, every single player you named was a superstar and I believe all of them had a pretty nice card following, which essentially proves my point that players like this are superstars on the field and in the baseball card world.

As for Harper having more power than Stanton...based on what we've seen from both players so far, no he doesn't.
Harper hit 14 homeruns at age 18 in 258 ABs in Class A, or a homer every 18.4 AB.
Stanton hit 39 homeruns at age 18 in 468 ABs in the same Class A league two seasons prior, or a homer every 12 AB.

That isn't a fair comparison. Playing a full season at a minor league level inflates your numbers as the premier players in the league are promoted. In addition, it's a tiny sample size. From a pure scouting perspective, Harper has more power than Stanton.

Anyways, Stanton has fabulous power, but my point was that guys like that come along more than once a decade or two. There are always multiple players in the league who have similar usable or similar raw power. Besides Harper, Cabrera, Pujols, Upton and Dunn are players with similar combinations of actualized power.[/quote:3ddgia0k]

I'm not sure you can possibly get a better comparison for two young players separated by a couple years than a sample from the same league at the same age; but to get even more specific, over the same number of games in the same league at the same age, Stanton hit 21 homers and Harper hit 14.

I don't disagree that Harper has incredible power potential, but at this point to say definitively and without a doubt that Harper has better power than Stanton is just silly. You can read internet scouting reports all you want but once the players step on the field, performance starts to carry more weight than anyone's opinion.

Who do you take? The guy who has an 80 power tool and is a lock for 500 homers once he makes it to the Majors? Or the guy who has the 80 power tool and already had 56 career homeruns before he turned 22?

Let's give Stanton a full season to show what he is really capable of as he gets a little more experience and let's let Harper get to the Majors and get some ABs under his belt and see how he does and then we'll talk about who has better power.

 

[D-Lite]

Montero wants to know why Bumgarner made the poll and he did not.

 

[Wes]

[quote="All The Hype":bpv2rbbo]

[quote="All The Hype":bpv2rbbo]I have a hard time seeing how anyone can leave Stanton out of their top 2 from this list. Power like that comes maybe once every decade or two; and I think he'll ultimately hit for pretty good average too.


It was very difficult to not vote for Hosmer or Castro, but Strasburg was my second pick for similar power as Stanton, only from the mound rather than at the plate. TJS hasn't stopped too many pitchers from regaining top form in recent years, and Strasburg at or near top form has the stuff to be one of the best in the game.


What separates these two from the others on this list is what I'll call "the electric factor"--meaning they have the 500+ foot homerun power and the 100+mph arm and the 50+ homerun potential and the 15+ strikeouts in a game potential. These are things that few human beings are physically capable of doing, and players who perform at a level that awes people are the kind of players who find stardom and whose cards sell for astronomical prices on a consistant basis.

That's totally hyperbolic. There are plenty of power hitters like that (and better) over a 10 year or 20 year period. Can you really not name another power hitter from the last 20 years as good or better than Stanton? Barry Bonds? Frank Thomas? Mark McGwire? Sammy Sosa? Shoot, Bryce Harper has more power than Stanton.

Bonds, Sosa, McGwire are all PED users, so I think most would agree that while they all would have been great power hitters anyway, their performance and numbers are tainted and therefore can't really be used as comparison to a non-PED user.

Thomas and Stanton are definitely comparable based on what Stanton has shown so far in his young career, but you have to go back to 1990 when Thomas made his debut (22 years ago). Obviously he played through the 90s and into the 00s, but their careers began about 20 years apart.

Regardless, the "hyperbolic" point is simply that players like Stanton don't grow on trees. Furthermore, every single player you named was a superstar and I believe all of them had a pretty nice card following, which essentially proves my point that players like this are superstars on the field and in the baseball card world.

As for Harper having more power than Stanton...based on what we've seen from both players so far, no he doesn't.
Harper hit 14 homeruns at age 18 in 258 ABs in Class A, or a homer every 18.4 AB.
Stanton hit 39 homeruns at age 18 in 468 ABs in the same Class A league two seasons prior, or a homer every 12 AB.

That isn't a fair comparison. Playing a full season at a minor league level inflates your numbers as the premier players in the league are promoted. In addition, it's a tiny sample size. From a pure scouting perspective, Harper has more power than Stanton.

Anyways, Stanton has fabulous power, but my point was that guys like that come along more than once a decade or two. There are always multiple players in the league who have similar usable or similar raw power. Besides Harper, Cabrera, Pujols, Upton and Dunn are players with similar combinations of actualized power.[/quote:bpv2rbbo]

I'm not sure you can possibly get a better comparison for two young players separated by a couple years than a sample from the same league at the same age; but to get even more specific, over the same number of games in the same league at the same age, Stanton hit 21 homers and Harper hit 14.

I don't disagree that Harper has incredible power potential, but at this point to say definitively and without a doubt that Harper has better power than Stanton is just silly. You can read internet scouting reports all you want but once the players step on the field, performance starts to carry more weight than anyone's opinion.

Who do you take? The guy who has an 80 power tool and is a lock for 500 homers once he makes it to the Majors? Or the guy who has the 80 power tool and already had 56 career homeruns before he turned 22?

Let's give Stanton a full season to show what he is really capable of as he gets a little more experience and let's let Harper get to the Majors and get some ABs under his belt and see how he does and then we'll talk about who has better power.[/quote:bpv2rbbo]

Early or not, you can scout power before you see home run numbers. Will we know more in five, ten, twenty years? Sure. But having seen both guys in person, and grading purely on the tool, I have no problem saying that Harper has more power. Simple home run numbers - even at the same level, do not tell the whole story. Curtis Granderson has more home runs than Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera last year, and nobody would argue that he has more power. If Stanton has 80 power, and I'd grant that, Harper has 90 power. There simply isn't anyone in baseball who can match his bat speed and physicality.

 

[ronfromfresno]

After watching the Opening Day game in Miami I think Stanton is going have a very tough time in that new park.

 

[fkw]

Stanton is closer to Dunn and Reynolds than Bonds, its silly to compare anyone in last 50 years to Bonds.... (except Maybe Pujols)

Bonds was a great pure contact hitter with awesome power that hit the ball more solid more often than anyone in history. TWilliams is close....

From what Ive seen, Stanton has a ton of holes in his swing and many times it seems the pitcher actually accidentally hits his bat

 

[Wes]

Montero wants to know why Bumgarner made the poll and he did not.

Jesus knows that it's because he's a 2012 rookie and not a 2010-2011 rookie.

 

[D-Lite]

Montero wants to know why Bumgarner made the poll and he did not.

Jesus knows that it's because he's a 2012 rookie and not a 2010-2011 rookie.

You don't F with the Jesus. He'll be a rookie whenever he damn well feels like it.