Big things going down in the world of baseball products

[ChasHawk]

the story is out there


I decided not to print it because the letter is very misleading



wax heaven decided to print it.


http://completist.wordpress.com/2009/05 ... eck-razor/

Why do you consider the letter to be "very misleading?"

Thanks

If defacto control exists, then the people at UD aren't very smart.

They muddied up future razor products with their USA set. If you control something, you don't compete with it.


Plus, I am sure that the financial ties were to edgeman, and not razor. Read, the information is out there.

You seem sort of split here.

To me, it's easy, if the memo is true... which, why wouldn't it be... UD ran Razor as they had de facto control.

I think worrying about the financing is immaterial. As either the memo is false and none of this is true or it is and UD is running the show.

There was smoke, then there was fire, now it's just ablaze and people still refuse to believe anything is going on. Wow.

+1 - Either it's true or it's not. People taking sides right now is just silly.

 

[Crash Davis]

Here's something for everyone to consider.

If Razor is financed by UD, then why did their USA product suddenly go high-end? Seems as though that would be counterproductive to Razor's agenda.

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

According to the letter we all read, which was apparently sent by someone high-up at the MLBPA, stated that the owner and CEO of Upper Deck, Richard McWilliams (or McWilliam...whichever) ADMITTED to financing Razor and having defacto control over the company.

Wow. I had no idea that's what it said.

When you're ready to come down off your condescending high horse, this "little guy" would appreciate it.

I wish I could say I was shocked that you posted in this thread.

JP,

I didn't mean to sound condescending.

Sorry, brother.

 

[masonphillip]

So if UD was running Razor, then why did things go down the way they did, I mean the product release methods were poor, quality was horrendous and communication with the market was bad. If I was the owner of a company (UD owning Razor) and I had tons of prior experience in the same market, I think I'd make sure those things didn't happen.

I'm not denying that something is going on, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to add up.

 

[NECpilgrims8]

Here's something for everyone to consider.

If Razor is financed by UD, then why did their USA product suddenly go high-end? Seems as though that would be counterproductive to Razor's agenda.

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

According to the letter we all read, which was apparently sent by someone high-up at the MLBPA, stated that the owner and CEO of Upper Deck, Richard McWilliams (or McWilliam...whichever) ADMITTED to financing Razor and having defacto control over the company.

::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm::

Yes, and we should all believe that the info is, in fact, 100% correct on their end.

Get over yourself man. I know it's hard to break away from the Topps bubble, for clear reasons, but you can have a constructive opion for once. You don't always have to be so jaded.

 

[flightposite]

I would also like to say...

Whatever happened to just liking cards, regardless of who made them, and not caring about all the behind the scenes BS?

 

[thefasterblade]

So if UD was running Razor, then why did things go down the way they did, I mean the product release methods were poor, quality was horrendous and communication with the market was bad. If I was the owner of a company (UD owning Razor) and I had tons of prior experience in the same market, I think I'd make sure those things didn't happen.

I'm not denying that something is going on, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to add up.

I would look at it like any other branch of business. Arista records might own LaFace Records, but that doesn't mean they are controlling every aspect of LaFace. They might have right or underlying control, but its still a different entity.

It would be no different than any other subsidiary or sister company.

 

[miguelcabrera]

I would also like to say...

Whatever happened to just liking cards, regardless of who made them, and not caring about all the behind the scenes BS?

im with u flight

air high five?

 

[ChasHawk]

Here's something for everyone to consider.

If Razor is financed by UD, then why did their USA product suddenly go high-end? Seems as though that would be counterproductive to Razor's agenda.

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

According to the letter we all read, which was apparently sent by someone high-up at the MLBPA, stated that the owner and CEO of Upper Deck, Richard McWilliams (or McWilliam...whichever) ADMITTED to financing Razor and having defacto control over the company.

::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm::

Yes, and we should all believe that the info is, in fact, 100% correct on their end.

Get over yourself man. I know it's hard to break away from the Topps bubble, for clear reasons, but you can have a constructive opion for once. You don't always have to be so jaded.

Am I the only one who read Steve Judd's comment on the wax heaven post?

Steve (17:37:27) :

I have been wondering how long it would take before this fact became public knowledge.

Even Gilmore considers him to be one of THE most credible sources in regards to this hobby.
I'm leaning towards legit until I see otherwise.

 

[masonphillip]

I would also like to say...

Whatever happened to just liking cards, regardless of who made them, and not caring about all the behind the scenes BS?

I was just thinking about that, very good point.

I've bought some razor metal parallels and one way or another, I think they look nice!

 

[mredsox89]

I would also like to say...

Whatever happened to just liking cards, regardless of who made them, and not caring about all the behind the scenes BS?

Its become a business and when people invest rather than collect this is what comes along.

So if UD was running Razor, then why did things go down the way they did, I mean the product release methods were poor, quality was horrendous and communication with the market was bad. If I was the owner of a company (UD owning Razor) and I had tons of prior experience in the same market, I think I'd make sure those things didn't happen.

I'm not denying that something is going on, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to add up.

Agreed, i just don't see why if UD had control, the simple problems like release and QC would be problems.

 

[Wes]

I would think UD or Razor would come out with some kind of statement in the coming days - sooner than later seems like a logical PR step.

 

[cgilmo]

I would also like to say...

Whatever happened to just liking cards, regardless of who made them, and not caring about all the behind the scenes BS?

See, that is kinda my angle here.


And the basis for my support of razor. If they made good cards, I would buy. In my opinion they did that. Things could have been better with signature series, and metal could be packed out sure. But that doesn't change the fact that there are still nice cards to be had of players that I want to buy.

 

[masonphillip]

So if UD was running Razor, then why did things go down the way they did, I mean the product release methods were poor, quality was horrendous and communication with the market was bad. If I was the owner of a company (UD owning Razor) and I had tons of prior experience in the same market, I think I'd make sure those things didn't happen.

I'm not denying that something is going on, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to add up.

I would look at it like any other branch of business. Arista records might own LaFace Records, but that doesn't mean they are controlling every aspect of LaFace. They might have right or underlying control, but its still a different entity.

It would be no different than any other subsidiary or sister company.

I agree they may operate in different ways but not necessarily ways that are to the detriment of their business. If you've invested money in it, you are going to do your best to see return on that investment.

The company I work for has subs, they run day to day by themselves, but if they ran-off and started doing things to the detriment of themselves and the parent company it wouldn't take long at all to get them back in line.

 

[braves2008champs]

These guys who are backing razor are simply doing it to protect their asses. They can say "I like what their doing" all they want, but they are just trying to protect their investments. People are going to lose money on this and these guys are trying (albeit unsucessfully) to protect them somewhat.

You forget to change your user ID?

:lol: :lol:

 

[miguelcabrera]

These guys who are backing razor are simply doing it to protect their asses. They can say "I like what their doing" all they want, but they are just trying to protect their investments. People are going to lose money on this and these guys are trying (albeit unsucessfully) to protect them somewhat.

You forget to change your user ID?

:lol: :lol:

no i did not

 

[beefycheddar]

I would think UD or Razor would come out with some kind of statement in the coming days - sooner than later seems like a logical PR step.

I sent an email asking Brian for a statement and got a no comment at this time.

 

[thefasterblade]

I would also like to say...

Whatever happened to just liking cards, regardless of who made them, and not caring about all the behind the scenes BS?

I don't get it either. If you like the cards, it shouldn't matter, but I think people really believed in BG and are taking it as a personal cross. His words were barely holding weight before, they probably view the whole operation as a complete debacle now.

The other problem is that Razor was going for the "investment" angle and was trying to appeal to prospectors. Prospectors began to believe in the Razor product and were hoping that when they were picking up Hosmer, Beckham, Lowrie etc. autos that these cards and more important the company producing them would still be relevant and revered in the market. Investing in these cards was a huge gamble to begin with. I think many people are bitter and "taking sides" because of this. No one wants to lose their investments. The telling was on the wall when signature series cards lost most of their value due to the addition of new products.

You we're just prospecting in Tim Beckham, you we're prospecting in Razor at the same time. Prospectors have to view Razor just as they might view Greg "Toe" Nash, you win some...you lose some.

 

[Wes]

I would think UD or Razor would come out with some kind of statement in the coming days - sooner than later seems like a logical PR step.

I sent an email asking Brian for a statement and got a no comment at this time.

I'm sure they are figuring out what angle to take. Hopefully for them it happens soon - silence does nothing but drive negative speculation.

 

[Wes]

I would also like to say...

Whatever happened to just liking cards, regardless of who made them, and not caring about all the behind the scenes BS?

I don't get it either. If you like the cards, it shouldn't matter, but I think people really believed in BG and are taking it as a personal cross. His words were barely holding weight before, they probably view the whole operation as a complete debacle now.

The other problem is that Razor was going for the "investment" angle and was trying to appeal to prospectors. Prospectors began to believe in the Razor product and were hoping that when they were picking up Hosmer, Beckham, Lowrie etc. autos that these cards and more important the company producing them would still be relevant and revered in the market. Investing in these cards was a huge gamble to begin with. I think many people are bitter and "taking sides" because of this. No one wants to lose their investments. The telling was on the wall when signature series cards lost most of their value due to the addition of new products.

You we're just prospecting in Tim Beckham, you we're prospecting in Razor at the same time. Prospectors have to view Razor just as they might view Greg "Toe" Nash, you win some...you lose some.

I don't see the Sig Series or Metal autos losing because of this. There is still plenty of time to "prospect" them.

 

[Therion]

I would think UD or Razor would come out with some kind of statement in the coming days - sooner than later seems like a logical PR step.

I sent an email asking Brian for a statement and got a no comment at this time.

He's actively talking to me about it in PMs, so you might try a PM.