How did they do in 2011 a year after their first WS win, oh yeah they didn't make the playoffs and finished 8 games back. Dynasties and dominant teams don't do that.
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Buster the new Derek Jeter of baseball for the future?
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How did they do in 2011 a year after their first WS win, oh yeah they didn't make the playoffs and finished 8 games back. Dynasties and dominant teams don't do that.
sportscardtheory
Active member
And Posey missed 117 games that year. Funny how that worked.
The talk of dynasty may be premature, but the present facts speak for themselves. The Giants just ran a "superior" team in the Tigers. They did the same thing in 2010 to the supposedly superior Phillies and Rangers. Look at their major deadline pickups this year - Scutaro played out of his mind, and while Pence didn't set the world on fire at the plate, he still fit in with the team's makeup/chemistry. The Dodgers were widely expected to run away from the division after their late season pickups, but instead they got blown out.
It pains me to say it, but with that pitching and with what Bochy seems to get out of his team, you can NEVER count them out. I don't expect that to change. All I can do is hope that the Dodgers gel the same way with their new cast of characters.
It pains me to say it, but with that pitching and with what Bochy seems to get out of his team, you can NEVER count them out. I don't expect that to change. All I can do is hope that the Dodgers gel the same way with their new cast of characters.
markakis8
Active member
- Oct 31, 2008
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I'm no basketball expert, so maybe someone can enlighten me here: With everyone saying he's on the West Coast, why are Magic, Shaq, Kobe and the LA Lakers so huge?
markakis8
Active member
- Oct 31, 2008
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As I stated in the WS thread - the 2010 Giants and the 2012 Giants are two VERY different teams - particularly their offense. Most of their pitching remains.
This is what I posted in response to people doubting the 2010 Giants and whether they would doubt the 2012 Giants.
This year was not luck, the Giants were one of the best teams in baseball. I'm not surprised they won this year. 2010, the Giants got hot at the right time and it was an anomaly that they won the WS. It was a complete surprise they got past the Braves, let alone the Phillies and the Rangers. Their pitching was good, but let's compare lineups from 2010 and 2012.
2010 World Series:
Andres Torres
Freddy Sanchez
Buster Posey
Pat Burrell
Cody Ross
Aubery Huff
Juan Uribe
Edgar Renteria
2012:
Angel Pagan
Marco Scutaro
Pablo Sandoval
Buster Posey
Hunter Pence
Brandon Belt
Gregor Blanco
Brandon Crawford
One person remains from 2010 - Buster Posey. 2012 lineup is clearly better than 2010, you had four aging players on their way out the door that LUCKILY provided clutch moments for you throughout the playoffs (Sanchez, Burrell, Huff, and Renteria) and a mediocre hitter that became your savior at the right time vs. the Phillies (Cody Ross). Combine that with the great pitching the Giants had and you got yourself a championship.
2012 lineup was a lot more youthful and powerful and they will be around for a couple years. Still have the great pitching (replacing Sanchez with Vogelsong doesn't hurt). There weren't any "wow" moments from any particular player on the Giants in 2012 outside of Pablo hitting 3 home runs, but even then, Pablo is the second best hitter on the Giants - he's no Adam Kennedy.
Plus in 2012, you had MVP candidates each half of the season (Melky in first half, Buster Posey in 2nd half). Having Marco Scutaro hit over .360 the 2nd half didn't hurt and be the NLCS MVP didn't hurt either. Who did you have as an MVP candidate in 2010? Nobody, the Giants offense was terrible almost all year. Posey and Huff had nice seasons but the rest of the squad was mediocre at best - further proving the point that their clutch hitting throughout the entire playoffs was nothing short of magic.
2010 was a magical, lucky year for SF fans. 2012 was more expected. Their lineups are completely different.
katieneack
Member
Posey, being a catcher, will never have the longevity that Derek Jeter has enjoyed.
One could make an argument that the 2012 Giants were more lucky this time around, and it's not even close.
In the LDS, Johnny Cueto, a possible Cy Young candidate threw about 7 pitches total and was forced out of the game due to an injury. The Reds starting 5 started 161 games this year. The only other start was made by someone else due to a weird double-header. LUCK
The Giants were down 0-2 to the Reds in that same LDS and were being no-hit by Homer Bailey (Game score of 80). They won the game in the 10th inning on an error by Scott Rolen. Yep the same Scott Rolen that is considered a border-line HOFer for his gold frickin' glove. LUCK
In 2010 they had Lincecum in his prime. This year they had some 14 yr old kid with long hair. LUCK
Bottom line, the Giants were lucky to even make it past the first round of the playoffs.
In the LDS, Johnny Cueto, a possible Cy Young candidate threw about 7 pitches total and was forced out of the game due to an injury. The Reds starting 5 started 161 games this year. The only other start was made by someone else due to a weird double-header. LUCK
The Giants were down 0-2 to the Reds in that same LDS and were being no-hit by Homer Bailey (Game score of 80). They won the game in the 10th inning on an error by Scott Rolen. Yep the same Scott Rolen that is considered a border-line HOFer for his gold frickin' glove. LUCK
In 2010 they had Lincecum in his prime. This year they had some 14 yr old kid with long hair. LUCK
Bottom line, the Giants were lucky to even make it past the first round of the playoffs.
RiceLynnEvans75
Active member
I wouldn't call it luck. Sounds more like other teams/players not being able to seal the deal. That isn't a matter of luck.
Raider408
New member
- Oct 10, 2012
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Call it what you want, and the Giants will just dominate in the World Series when it counts, just like the two we were in...Our pitching staff, Posey, Sandoval, Bochy= dynasty...2011 who cares, injuries play a part in every teams success.....2013 repeat believe it...
The possibly best defensive 3B of this generation commits an error... and not having to face an ace might not be luck, but it aint skill.
markakis8
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- Oct 31, 2008
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And the Reds didnt have to bat either! They just sat on the bench and forfeited their outs...what luck the Giants have.
katieneack
Member
I would think that the other teams best pitcher getting hurt and a perennial gold glover making an error is pretty lucky. That being said, they still won and that is all that matters in the end.
lisu
Active member
In all sports, there's a certain element of luck, but there's also a certain level of skill. The Reds made a critical error when it mattered. The Cardinals also made some critical errors when it mattered, and the Giants didn't. So, call it what you like, but at the end of the day, the Giants won because they made less errors.
RiceLynnEvans75
Active member
You're talking about one pitcher and one play. How do you account for all the other plays in the game where they could have gotten it done?
Agreed. Pythagorean backs it up:
2010 - 92-70, should have been 94-68 - not lucky at all
2012 - 94-68, should have been 88-74 - much luckier
Aubrey Huff in 2010 was an almost-5 WAR player who finished 7th in MVP voting, so it's kind of ridiculous to say they didn't have an MVP candidate in 2010. To say that their 2012 lineup is much better is an overstatement. Torres, Uribe, and Burrell were all much better than some people seem to remember. 6 sub-.700 OPS hitters in 2012, compared to 3 in 2010. Plus they had a 2-time Cy Young winner in 2010 who was still pitching like one, and a dominant closer who wasn't even on the roster for this World Series. I'd say both their hitting and pitching were better in 2010.
Really, only one way to settle this: Strat-O-Matic replay.
RiceLynnEvans75
Active member
And the Reds didnt have to bat either! They just sat on the bench and forfeited their outs...what luck the Giants have.
Exactly
ronfromfresno
Active member
But that was one game, the Giants won the next two as well, on the road vs the Reds #2 and #3 starters, who as you pointed out lead the Redsto the 2nd best record in the league. The Reds weren't in the lead of game 3 when Rolen made the error and they still had an opportunity to bat in the bottom of the 10th, that error wasn't a walk off win for the Giants.
And the Reds didnt have to bat either! They just sat on the bench and forfeited their outs...what luck the Giants have.
Oh I almost forgot. For them to even be in position to score on Rolen's error they were lucky enough to get a passed ball on Ryan Hanigan. Hanigan had 3 passed balls in 110 games this season. Pretty lucky.
I think you aren't catching my sarcasm. The Giants beat my beloved Reds. Calling either team more lucky is ridiculous.
